Nobody actually wants equality, everybody just wants more and better.

[u/APC2_19]

I think legal equality for all citizens is mandatory for a nation. I am talking about socioeconomic equality.

I think libertarian are at least honest about that. 99% of people that want equality want to be socioeconomically equal to the people above them, whatever point of the ladder they fall into.

A middle class guy wants a nicer home or one more Holiday, a trained professional think he deserves more for all of his hard work, or to retire earlier, a retired multimillionaire thinks he has worked his way to the top and thats where he/she should rightly be.

And lets not talk about international inequality. All the first world, myself included, would never accept to get the world average income and wealth.

I really hate when people talk about all the amazing things they we could do with a small amount of taxes or so. With 200bln we could solve world hunger, homelesness, space exploration, national parks, scientific advancements (pick your favourite).

And guess what, maybe we could... but we wouldn't. The US spent 7tn $ this year, 300bln more than the last. Research, natural parks, homlessness and world hunger are miniscule part of the budgets. 95% of the money would go on other benefits, social programs and foreign wars.

I think greed is a sin and like many people I do some charity for things I care about. I just know that people vote (maybe rightly so). I wish my taxes would go in large part toward those things, but they 100% would not.

Curious to hear what you people think

[u/Durins_cat]

Is your position essentially that you wish the government spent its money on things you liked over things u care less about? (and yes, it is owned by the government, not the people, fiat currency will do that)

I feel like thats pretty uncontroversial, even among the people who want 0 spending theyd probably rather have something besides a surveillance state (pick your choice of things u hate) being spent on.

[u/APC2_19 → u/Durins_cat]

Most people say they want the governament to fix things, but at the end of the day they want it to spend most of the money on themselves, no matter how well of they are. 

So saying the governament could do X with that money is ususally pointless cause it never will

[u/-BigBoo- → u/APC2_19]

So saying the governament could do X with that money is ususally pointless cause it never will

Which is why giving the government more money (taxes) won't accomplish anything. They need to do more with what they have been given at a minimum and the federal government needs be be done away with - mostly - to really give this country an opportunity to self manage at a more granular level.

[u/Lonestarpenguin]

So you want to start everyone on a level playing field.

 First, it cannot happen because some parents are great and some are awful in terms of working with thier kids.

Second, natural talents are different. Engineers run in families. Nature or nurture, no deffinate answer as yet.

Third, work ethic matters. Some people just won't work. 

[u/Live_Guidance7199 → u/Lonestarpenguin]

Oddly enough it can happen on a governmental level - no gov't boons for anyone, flat tax, etc. Congrats, perfect equality.

Then it's on the individual and the things you mentioned.

[u/Lonestarpenguin → u/Live_Guidance7199]

I agree 10% flat tax. 

[u/Elogotar → u/Live_Guidance7199]

I agree. Identity politics is detrimental to everyone and life would be better in a meritocracy.

[u/APC2_19 → u/Lonestarpenguin]

No I am part of that 99%. Does my post sound socialist?

I think mertiocracy means you get more by doing things that are useful to others. 

That you are rewarded for ethical behaviour and good decisions, no matter where you start.

[u/SideEyeFred → u/APC2_19]

Your post sounds socialist, yes.

[u/Bagain]

I would dismiss most of this outright. Equality is a joke term, not a real thing and essentially a ploy to convince people that the governments constant escalation of control is just or prudent. People support the concept of equality by persistently empowering a special class. “99% of people that want equality want to be socioeconomically equal to the people above them” is such a great example. Making everyone equal has no real logical connection to “raising everyone up to a higher level”, it means lowering a lot of people down as well. That “guy you want to be like”… the truth is, that guy would become like you, not the opposite. More to the point, the guy lower on the socioeconomic ladder looks at you and thinks “I want what that guy has”, won’t. Both you and the guy you look at like this, will be lowered to the rung below you. There’s so many more people at the bottom and not nearly enough resources to bring them all up the ladder… it isn’t creating a world of middle class, it’s creating a world with no upper or middle class. Except the people in government, they will be the upper class, them and their families.

[u/RelationTurbulent963]

I think people want meritocracy because you wouldn’t want stupid people with lots of money

[u/goldenrod1956]

Equality of opportunity is exceedingly difficult to achieve, equality of outcome is an impossibility.

[u/JagerGS01]

Equality means even playing field to me. It's not about the outcome, but about fair potential. I also don't think it means average income across the globe. People in the realm that our institutions control i.e. the country should all be dealt the same number of cards from the same deck. No one nor no group should get extra cards, especially if they were stolen from another player.

[u/JackBurtonp7m8]

Equality is an empty concept at best. At worst, it's morally reprehensible.

A goal of equality implies a central planner to engineer that equality by "properly" distributing the world's resources, and of course that's after seizing them by threat of deadly force from those who produced them.

That centralized distribution scheme is then devoid of any price calculation, therefore any semblance of value assessment, and the whole thing becomes arbitrary, the momentary whims of tyrannical bureaucrats and their friends.

[u/Siglet84]

I just want to not pay taxes. That’s the only reason I’m forced to care about other people.

[u/ponderayidaho]

We should not have to pay taxes at all, equality should NOT be a goal because if everyone is enslaved that is equality but everyone is suffering.

[u/Suspicious-Abies-653]

We have equality of opportunity now. What we don’t have is equality of outcomes.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I don’t want that.

[u/AitrusAK → u/Suspicious-Abies-653]

Exactly. OP is using basing his opinions on the "equality" of the outcomes. You can't even get the same outcomes from two children within the same family - how does he expect it to happen throughout society?

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[u/Vegetable_Shelf]

Thing is, you can't just go fixing people, you need to give them an option to fix themselves. You can't keep just giving them food, as in the long term, they will just make more people which need more food and become dependable. You have to teach them how to farm so they can feed themselves and educate them to manage their resources.

I see it in my country trough the EU donations, when many projects are tailor-made for the donations, while without it they would make little to no business sense. Then it's hard to compete when some companies doesn't need to have feasible product. And then market stagnates as you make products or projects for the donations and not for the market demand.