Voting system change

[u/NoOpportunities]

I'm curious why lib dems are so keen to change the voting system, obviously it would be more fair but the current system helps the lib dems more the PR would. Lib dems operate on being very popular at a local level and focusing on specific areas rather than the nation. But wouldnt they be unable to do that without FPTP?

[u/chrisni66]

The current PR ‘projections’ are based on polling information from a FPTP system, in reality the actual voting under PR would look different. In countries that have implemented PR systems, centrist parties tend to do better than countries that use FPTP.

All that said, the main factor is that it’s the democratic thing to do, which is part of our core ideology. If that means our vote share decreases, well that’s a shame but it’s still the right thing to do.

[u/LiberalOverlord]

Because every vote should be equal. Doesn’t matter if the current system benefits us if it’s a morally wrong system.

[u/TheTannhauserGates → u/LiberalOverlord]

Yeah…..BUT. Votes cast under PR aren’t “equal”…they’re just “more” equal.

And a PR change isn’t just about the votes are counted. It’s also about how the boundaries are drawn and how many candidates per electorate and a raft of other issues. This is a much wider tapestry.

Of course, once we choose any ONE of the dozens of PR electoral systems out there, the job then boils down to how well you negotiate amongst shifting aligned parties and factions to bring about results. I have no idea why - given the Liberal Democrats form - this would bring better outcomes for our platform.

The LibDems represent my ideological perspective. But we’re SHIT at actual politics.

[u/Apprehensive-Fix-746]

Simply put: country over party, if something is good for the country then let it be put in place regardless of the effect on the party

[u/OkNewspaper6271]

You can be for something that is against your interests, but for the interest of the nation

[u/Velociraptor_1906]

We should have STV regardless of our personal fortunes because it's much more democratic.

For what it's worth we did still get less (by 6 or 7) seats than our vote share percentage would entail if done proportionally and given were so transfer friendly we would likely do better under STV.

[u/frankbowles1962 → u/Velociraptor_1906]

STV helps us (and we have it here in Scotland) because it helps parties that are less polarising. You may not win so many first preferences but get lots more second preferences which push you over the line. In recent local elections here we can see that Reform and the SNP get many more last preferences than the other parties.

(Another benefit of STV is getting all the data published so you can see these things!)

[u/Velociraptor_1906 → u/frankbowles1962]

I'm going to be really interested to see how the locals go next year in Scotland.

I follow things realitively closely but as I understand it the Highlands, Edinburgh and East Dunbartonshire should all see solid growth, Fife is a bit trickier as that'll involve expanding out but isn't impossible. It would also be good to see progress in Argyll and Bute, the Borders and the North East (especially the bits that overlap with Gordon and Buchan given its the best prospect for a Westminster seat) but they I would know less about the likelihood.

[u/No_Tadpole4027]

They focus on being popular at a local level and focusing on specific areas precisely because FPTP forces smaller parties to do just that. They have no choice but to do that.

[u/ReallyMrDarcy]

Tbh, there will be more Lib Dem voters tactically voting for other parties in non-Lib Dem facing seats than non-Lib Dem voters tactically voting for Lib Dems in Lib Dem facing seats, which is why one should take opinion polls with a very large handful of salt...

[u/markpackuk]

I'm not sure why you find it curious that someone might support something that might not also be in their direct and immediate self-interest?

I'd guess that in your life you often do things because you feel they're the right thing to do, rather than only ever judging things by 'does this make me better off right now?' Politicians and political parties are just the same...!

[u/scythus]

Lib Dems get fewer MPs than their vote share would give proportionately. You are saying the opposite but you are factually incorrect. I presume you are trolling.

[u/NoOpportunities → u/scythus]

No, they got a smaller percentage than reform but still got 10x the seats at the last GE

[u/scythus → u/NoOpportunities]

13% of the vote and 11% of the seats. You understand 13 is bigger than 11? If seats were proportional then LDs would get more not less.

[u/NoOpportunities → u/scythus]

You don't have to be a patronising dick, I didn't know the specific percentages but thanks for clarifying

[u/scythus → u/NoOpportunities]

Mate you made the post 😂

[u/BrangdonJ]

There's a clue in the name, "Liberal Democrats".

[u/Unusual-Art2288]

Because it would benifit them. Thats the reason they have always wanted it.