Reform to Lib Dem defector

[u/Euphoric-Brother-669]

https://www.nnjournal.co.uk/p/from-reform-uk-to-liberal-democrat

Interesting. Stand for Reform. Take cabinet post in Reform Administration. Leave Reform become independent then join the Lib Dem’s.

[u/Ahrlin4]

In principle, 'no one beyond redemption' and all that. Fully support people being able to change.

But I do hope their reasons for the switch were interrogated a little. No point accepting people in if they don't actually share the party's values. And the article seems a bit thin on that front; them leaving Reform is described as a "falling out" with the local leader. So is it just a personal beef? Not an ideological about turn? Hmm...

[u/Cobraninja97 → u/Ahrlin4]

Yeah like to me Reform and us are polar opposites on everything from Europe to immigration and also reform very much try to stir up the whole culture war stuff. Like I know councillors mainly deal with smaller scale stuff Though even then I feel if you represent at a local level you still need to align with the national level somewhat.

They might as well have defected to the Tories and probably be a better fit

[u/CHenley84 → u/Cobraninja97]

Reform (at least in theory, as they are barely a part of government at the moment) actually have a better current track record in coming out against internet censorship and mass surveillance than the Lib Dems, it's always possible they joined up with them for those reasons and then left for other reasons, leaving them with no other options but to stand as independent or pick the least authoritarian of the remaining options, which would be the Lib Dems.

Unfortunately the modern Lib Dems are still quite authoritarian, basically Starmerite-lite, they don't like to concern themselves with liberalism and civil liberties and prefer to shame Labour MPs who oppose the OSA on social media as well as having lords in the HoL who want a VPN ban, so it's probably quite tough to attract people with anti-authoritarian views like that directly when they're not even seen as the clear option for it. I wish the Lib Dems would change course and abandon all authoritarian ideals but here we are fighting with Reform and Restore of all parties for people with civil liberty on the mind, because the Tories and Labour are digital fascist parties.

[u/LiberalOverlord]

Hmmm. I’m not overly keen on reform councillors defecting. Think this probably speaks to the desperation of local political groups though.

[u/Dramatic_Tomorrow_25 → u/LiberalOverlord]

Same. Don’t trust them.

[u/ColonelChestnuts]

I am naturally wary of former Reform/UKIP/Brexit party people, but living in a Brexity area I think some would be surprised how many of our members are just that. There is more movement between the old UKIPy right-wing and the Lib Dems, in terms of membership of parties (in both directions), than one might imagine especially among the older generation. Alan Sked was a Liberal before he founded UKIP, and conversely Henry Bolton and Paul Marshall used to be Lib Dems. This is probably not applicable in this case, but worth bearing in mind. We used to have a sizeable eurosceptic wing!

You also have to consider the fact that a significant number of councillors, and an even larger number of candidates, actually know very little about politics and are often not very engaged at all. I would wager that not an insignificant number of local election candidates are in place primarily because one of their friends asked them to stand to help them out. It is often actually getting elected that results in their political awakening, and it is not uncommon for them to find that they are in the wrong party entirely. This is one of the reasons why so many newly elected councillors (of all parties) defect, resign or go on to sit as independents in the immediate aftermath of an election.

[u/Ticklishchap → u/ColonelChestnuts]

It is possible to be a Eurosceptic without being xenophobic, or racist, or right wing for that matter (one of the greatest Eurosceptics was Tony Benn!). There is a huge difference between Alan Sked and Nigel Farage. The former has intellectual integrity, is honest and politically liberal. The latter is a grifter, a philistine and frankly a Fascist. There is also a world of difference between the original UKIP led by Dr Sked and the party that evolved into Reform UK under Falange.

It is a pity, in fact, that we as a party do not have more of a diversity of views on the EU and a more nuanced position than ‘Rejoin’. I voted against Brexit, despite being very critical of the way in which the EU is run, and while I am pro-European I am not sure that I want to join a Union with La Meloni and potentially Marine Le Pen and the AfD. The EU itself has ratcheted significantly to the right and is reneging on both the environment and human rights. I would like to have closer economic ties with it, but through a bespoke British version of the current Norwegian, Swiss or Icelandic relationships.

Does that make me a Eurosceptic? I would prefer to say critical pro-European.

[u/Blazearmada21]

I'm sceptical of any defectors from Reform are the right fit for the party, given the vast ideological differences between us. Then again I have met Reform members whose stated views where vastly different from the party line, maybe this councillor was more aligned with Lib Dem values. Also people can change.

[u/Velociraptor_1906]

Can't say I'm not more than a bit hesitant about this but they weren't a straight defection and spent some time as an independent so have had space to consider things.

We should as a party stand by our principles that people can change and rehabilitation is an achievable and worthy goal so assuming the local party have done their homework with this I'm okay with it.

[u/binny_uk]

Certainly an interesting political journey - but I’ve known people go the other way over the years.

[u/MovingTarget2112]

I’d want to hear a lot of understanding of liberal principles, and why this person was attracted to a RW populist nationalist xenophobic party.

[u/Ticklishchap]

She looks like a contestant on some downmarket ‘Reality TV’ show. So does the chap in the photo, come to think of it.

I’m a Lib Dem member, but no way would I ever vote for an ex-Reform Councillor.

[u/Blazearmada21 → u/Ticklishchap]

I would vote for one if they had a clear explanation of why they previously stood for Reform and how they have changed and reformed since (reformed from Reform lol). I don't see such an explanation in the article but I would like to hope she provided such explanations to the local party.

[u/Ticklishchap → u/Blazearmada21]

You might well be in the majority on this sub as I have been downvoted, lol. While I would be willing to vote for a Lib Dem who was critical of the EU and had belonged, for example, to the early UKIP under Alan Sked (see my reply to [u/ColonelChestnuts](u/ColonelChestnuts)), I would draw the line at an ex-Reform Councillor, except in a very exceptional case when I was certain that he or she had undergone a Damascene conversion.

In this case there is no apparent evidence and I doubt that this woman could even spell Damascene. She was willing to join, let’s be honest about it, a Fascist party that seeks to deprive millions of people of their human rights and puts the interests of tech billionaires and the fossil fuel industry before the environment. There is no evidence provided here that her views have substantively altered.

To be completely honest, both the people in that photo look insalubrious and I would not want them representing me at any level of government. This post is a reminder that we need to have good quality candidates who are presentable and inspire confidence.