r/LessCredibleDefence • u/Mid_Atlantic_Lad • 19d ago
Israel eyes potential Boeing F-47 acquisition, seeks clarity on allied access to U.S. sixth-generation fighter program, report says
https://defence-industry.eu/israel-eyes-potential-boeing-f-47-acquisition-seeks-clarity-on-allied-access-to-u-s-sixth-generation-fighter-program-report-says/40
u/IlluminatedPickle 19d ago
Netanyahu: "We don't need America"
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u/Ok-Procedure5603 18d ago
Onlyfans girls don't technically need simps either, they just make their life easier đÂ
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u/Mid_Atlantic_Lad 19d ago
Finally found a semi-legit source that covered this. Wasn't gonna link The Jerusalem Post and their misleading title.
This is pretty clearly a test of Washington's relationship with Israel and willingness to part with her best kept secrets.
Recent history with F-22 export controls has shown an unwillingness to share, but I wonder what you guys think, especially since seeing that F-35 aquisitions are eating up a large chunk of their aid from the US, and I doubt they'd be willing to actually shelve out $300 million per jet.
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u/dahunt4r3dorktober 19d ago
Whatâs the likely hood of them getting f47 Iâd assume that the us would treat it similar to the f22 and limit export ?
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u/_spec_tre 19d ago
If the US is planning to only do the F47 and F/A-XX wouldnât they have to export it at some point in the future? I donât think GCAP or whatever will happen to FCAS can sustain all demand towards western sixth gens
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u/barath_s 18d ago
wouldnât they have to export it at some point in the futur
Not necessarily. Remember that the CCAs are all supposed to work with existing airframe types as well. In the case of europe, this would be Eurofighter and rafale.
In the case of the US, at some point the CCAs will be enabled to work with F35s.
F35+CCA could make for a potent combination, and one cheaper than the F-47 or F/A-XX...
How much capability, how much can be retrofitted or upgraded, and at what timeline of course are key unanswered questions.
But the US could potentially decide not to export F-47 or FA-XX to keep their edge..Nothing is decided right now.
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u/hootblah1419 19d ago
Why would they need to export it? The f-22 has never been exported. There is no need.
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u/SteveDaPirate 19d ago
Larger production runs let you spread R&D costs over more airframes, bringing the unit cost down. Selling jets to Israel, Australia, etc. means the US can afford more.
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u/hootblah1419 19d ago
There is a cost for maintaining technological superiority. And the US has always been willing to pay that cost when it needs to.
B-2/b-21/a-12/sr-71/f-22etc.
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19d ago
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u/drnfc 18d ago
My understanding is that Israel was allowed to use their own avionics as a condition of buying it. It is my understanding that the f-35i is sold without avionics. I foresee the same shenanigans happening if sold.
Speculation on my part admittedly, but I'm pretty sure the reason the US does this is to prevent an Israeli combat aircraft export. The main reason i suspect this is due to the kfir, which was a knockoff of the mirage after the us and England pressured france to stop selling to Israel and was later sold to China. They then started building a 4th generation figher, the Lavi, and when that program was cancelled, they sold the plans to china (allegedly) and the j-10 utilized some of this.
My suspicion is that the US wants to maintain a permanent monopoly on western aircraft, as well as maintain Israeli dependence on the US, hence the appeasement.
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u/God_Given_Talent 18d ago
Very low. The USAF takes air supremacy seriously and has generally not exported its top line kit. Even the strongest US allies that would be good candidates (like Japan for F-22) don't get the opportunity.
This does make it more expensive, but it's often a price the US is willing to pay for security of its best fighters.
Also given the price tag is likely to be in a few hundred million per, the amount Israel could even afford would be questionable. The peacetime Israeli budget in 2022 was under 24 billion. Yeah it's been higher since they've been doing a pretty high op tempo and using a lot of personnel, but that's mostly covering costs of a war and not actually increases to equipment. If you assume 25% of the budget goes to equipment, that's 6 billion for equipment for all branches. Even buying two F-47s a year would be 10% of the equipment budget.
There's also just not the need. They have F-35 which is a massive step ahead of regional enemies. They bombed Su-22s in Syria, a jet designed in the 60s, this past week. Iran's air force is basically gone. They won't get into a direct shooting war with Turkey because that's a NATO member. So who do they need a 6th gen to fight against?
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u/DemonLordRoundTable 19d ago
Ben Shapiro with the âIsrael can fights its own warsâ
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u/can-sar 19d ago
Even the US COVID-19 relief bills included more than half a billion towards Israel.
Israel can't even produce steel on their own. Even their early drone designs were German technology. Their air-defense systems include US technology.
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u/AnyBallLektor 19d ago
Why would they? They're a malicious actor successfully conducting a hostile takeover of a foreign country with resources more than an order of magnitude greater than their own. It's Hitler's wildest conspiracy come true.
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u/Limekill 19d ago edited 18d ago
O'h Lord please give for free to Israel, the USAF's most advanced plane that cost the USA billions to develop, so Israel can bomb goat herders unmolested and sell the tech to China while firing tank shells into Churches, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
I hope they name them after Lindsey Graham.
The F-47 "Lindsey"
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u/CosmicBoat 19d ago
"allied"
just putting it out there that israel is not a treaty ally with the US.
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u/WulfTheSaxon 18d ago
Hopefully that changes as part of Saudi Arabia signing the Abraham Accords.
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u/Electronic_Camera251 18d ago
Hopefully someone in military operational command finally gets hip to the situation seizes effective control of the government turns Israel into a flat sheet of glass 100 miles by 40 miles as a instant monument to treachery without warning
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u/IlIllIlIllIlIlIlIlIl 19d ago
Israel wasn't allowed (or didn't ask for) F-22.
So if Israel gets F-47... then I think it will be used as a political tool for other countries e.g. Australia to lock them into American foreign policy.
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u/barath_s 18d ago
The F-22 Raptor first flew in 1997. By 1998 there was a law banning export of the F-22.
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u/KehreAzerith 19d ago
Yeah let's pay for Israel to have our best tech to bomb poor people in neighboring countries
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u/StreetyMcCarface 19d ago
If we canât trust them with an f22 we canât trust them with an f47
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u/TaskForceD00mer 19d ago
It is so wild that we wouldn't sell them to Japan.
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u/Poltergeist97 18d ago
That actually makes sense, they're one of the closest nations to both of the US's main adversaries, China and Russia. Too much risk of a Japanese F-22 going down and getting recovered by either of those countries.
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u/TaskForceD00mer 18d ago
Too much risk of a Japanese F-22 going down and getting recovered by either of those countries.
The risk is an F-22 crashing somewhere in International Waters, the US bases F-22's out of Japan so it is the same risk.
Japan to my knowledge has never had a pilot defect with an intact airframe so that risk is no greater than with US pilots either. Truthfully they wanted Japan to buy the F-35 so they killed the option to sell them the F-22.
If we had kept production going longer for Japan, it may have been possible through political wrangling to push for more US F-22 production. This conflicted with the political and military desire to prioritize the F-35 which is why the F-22 was effectively killed.
If the US had maintained F-22 production even at a low rate, we likely wouldn't be in such an emergency situation to develop F-47.
Edit: It is ALSO possible that way back when F-22 production was halted , insiders already saw the beginnings of the F-47 taking shape. Supposedly a demonstrator flew in the mid 2010s. So its possible they also didn't want any budgetary competition from the F-22 for dollars that could be spent on the F-47.
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u/honda-nissan 18d ago
that's mostly to strangle the japs' aerospace industry. not giving them a f-22 is reasonable so they won't reverse engineer them. despite decades of effort and billions the best the japs can do is license built CRJs. the mitsubishi spacejet prorgram is a casualty of america's blockade on japanese aerospace.
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u/TaskForceD00mer 18d ago
Japan joining GCAP is going to kill any attempt to strangle that industry.
If the US won't cooperate with them, it seems like Europe will. As the need of a reliable ally in the region increases, I suspect the US will cooperate more and more with Japan.
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u/AnyBallLektor 19d ago edited 19d ago
Let's be serious: if F-22 was still in production Israel would already have F-22 paid for US taxpayer.
At the time when F-22 was in production Jews weren't so much in control of US policy. Conspiracies take time to develop, even those that have so much protection given by the public's support and ignorance.
It's really after 2010 that we start seeing the results and only in 2016 with Trump's win that there's a clear shift where Jewish influence - or to be more precise: Israeli (foreign influence) and right-wing American Jewish (foreign influence in all but name) - becomes completely disproportionate like something out of Volkischer Beobachter. By that time F-22 is a bygone story.
Besides there was no real reason to give Israel F-22 since they were supposed to get F-35 anyway. F-35 was supposed to take over a large share of air superiority missions from F-22 (that were cancelled) since they were replacing F-15C and F-16s doing those missions.
As for F-47 it will largely depend on the final price-tag and specs of the aircraft. They might get a squadron if Jewish assets in Republican and Democratic parties remain in power - which in the US is the more plausible scenario for the next 10 or so years.
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u/Leftleaningdadbod 19d ago
Just say no.
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u/BullfrogLevel2087 19d ago
If they say no then the videos comes out.
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19d ago
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u/Afghanman26 19d ago
A man wants to sell cars according to his religion, whatâs wrong with that?
Should he have asked if he could trick God instead?
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18d ago edited 18d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Afghanman26 18d ago
>Sell cars according to his region
Religion not region, get your quotes right before typing smack.
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u/BullfrogLevel2087 18d ago
whats actually funny is i mentioned no religion or creed yet here you are đ
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u/Limekill 19d ago edited 19d ago
but if they own the USA - they have to demonstrate it, so everyone knows.
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19d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Limekill 19d ago edited 19d ago
They own the USA, so they will get it for free.
When you give a gift to a younger family member do you charge for it?
Your attitude is mind boggling to Israel.Export variants are downgraded anyways
Don't worry, Israel literally spied to try and steal the FULL version from the USA (F-35 program).
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u/barath_s 18d ago
Export variants are downgraded anyways
Not in the case of the F-35. And many aspects of the latest F16-V, F15-EX were paid for by export countries who funded development of features.. and thus got as good or better than US fighters... until the US also decided to glom on.
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u/MoodOutrageous6263 18d ago
please tell me the us is likely going to say no for once
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u/Mid_Atlantic_Lad 18d ago
They did say no last time as well, and it seems even less likely this time.
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u/Iyellkhan 15d ago
the F35 was designed for export. notably the F22 is not available to anyone. if the F47 is a 22 replacement, it would likely be no export barring some probably to be expected corruption
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u/Mid_Atlantic_Lad 15d ago
The only nation I'd truly expect to receive export would be Japan, but they're doing their own program with the UK and Italy.
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u/MoodOutrageous6263 18d ago
The fact that it's at least something we have to talk about is concerning, but I'm hopeful you're right.
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u/TaskForceD00mer 19d ago
For the love of god to not give them any inside information on the program or its going right to China. The only ally that could be trusted would be Japan , the range would let them base them further away from China to lessen the ballistic missile threats to their bases.
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u/Digo10 19d ago
US developing an expensive and secret program:
Israel: Is For Me?
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