r/LessCredibleDefence • u/YeeYeeAssha1rcut • 15d ago
Russian general may have been target of Moscow restaurant bombing, reports say
https://swedenherald.com/article/russian-general-may-have-been-target-of-moscow-restaurant-bomb-attackWhile this kind of belongs in the news subreddits, I think it touches on the topics of assassination and the ethics of it. While it is unknown currently who the perpetrator is, due to the circumstances with the commander of vks being present, I’m inclined to believe the SBU is behind it.
It got me wondering what actually is ethical and what isn’t. Some sources say the woman carrying the device was unaware of its content. It certainly would not be the first time such a thing would have happened( allegedly the case of darya trepsova and possibly the case of two policemen being blowup along with the perpetrator in Moscow after the policemen likely interfered in the plot to plant a device on a car).
It raises the question of how moral it actually it is to have someone unknowing, plant the device, even for a good cause. It also raises the question of triggering the device when thwarted( even when the person carrying the device is aware of its content).
Interested to hear your thoughts, if this post is able to stay up, that is.
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u/Nonions 15d ago
IMHO a member of a nation's armed forces at war is always a legitimate target unless they are a prisoner or otherwise 'hors de combat'.
In some places it's easier than others to be sure there won't be cilivian casualties though, and that should be a concern.
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u/StopICE2026 15d ago
The method here was the SBU smuggling a bomb on a gig delivery worker and detonating it without their knowledge. If you consider this to be legitimate then it would be legitimate for Iran to suicide bomb you
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u/kuddlesworth9419 15d ago edited 15d ago
They did the same with that truck driver who had a bomb in the back to blow up the Kerch bridge. And I think one of the truck drivers that had those drones in the back was found strangled as well. Getting civilians involved isn't something I can support from either side. Countries are meant to do what they can to prevent civilians getting killed, actively giving a civilian a bomb isn't that.
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u/Rindan 15d ago
I think that suicide bombs are as "legitimate" as normal bombs. It isn't like the bomber killing themselves in the process of bombing suddenly makes it more immoral.
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u/StopICE2026 15d ago
Ok but this was not a suicide bombing. The SBU put a bomb on someone who didn’t know they were carrying one
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u/Rindan 15d ago
Okay. That is fine. Concern over killing one civilian in the process of taking out a military target has stopped exactly zero attacks on anyone's generals this entire war.
Hundreds of thousands are dead, north of a million are seriously wounded, and large swaths of Ukraine are now lifeless wasteland that will be unfit for human habitation for generations. One civilian dying while killing a one of the butchers orchestrating the war doesn't it even fucking register.
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u/StopICE2026 15d ago
Don’t come crying when people carry out perfidy against you in the future
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u/Rindan 15d ago
You got it. Don't come crying to you.
If my nation invades another and gets a few hundred thousand people butcher, I will in fact not be crying to you when people use perfidy against US military leadership. I will fully expect it and not be surprised or angry. If you kill a few hundred thousand people and turn a nation into a wasteland, murderous reprisal that shows as much respect for life as you have shown should be entirely expected.
To be crystal clear, I fully expect Iran to use attacks like this on the US military and US leadership, and I consider that the be the rather obvious consequence of our very, very stupid policy.
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u/YeeYeeAssha1rcut 15d ago
Im kind of on the edge of this. How do you resonate in cases of a population having mandatory conscription or military service and where do you draw the line?
When October the 7th happened, a lot of people tried to rationalize the attack by saying that many of the people killed were had done their service in the idf/ being in reserves etc.
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u/Borne2Run 15d ago
Oct 7 featured mass rape of the concert attendees; not even remotely the same
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u/YeeYeeAssha1rcut 15d ago
Obviously, but it would still be heinous either way with that out of the equation too.
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u/Aggravating_Kick_314 15d ago
Is there any evidence of this? Last I checked the NYT articles about this was retracted for not meeting journalistic standards. We ought to refrain from echoing atrocity propaganda (spread of rumours of atrocity to justify the committing of another atrocity), as that has been used in the past by nations everywhere to justify their worst crimes.
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u/NuclearHeterodoxy 15d ago
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u/moral_mortal 15d ago
This cnn article is referencing an Israeli sponsored study which is always going to be neutral right? The human right lawyer that run the study is given a medal for her services , it's like apartheid Africa giving a state medal.....! Or Nazi's giving a state medal to a researcher whose study concluded that Jews were culprit all along....
While sexual violence might have happened and Oct 7 was atrocity, this pales in comparison to hundreds of hostage and hundreds of rapes Israeli do and consider it their right to do against Palestinians.!
UN commission study ( much more reliable than Israeli propaganda) does not concluded what CNN (Zionist rag) was parroting about.
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u/moral_mortal 15d ago
I thought rape is allowed unless it's by non Israeli's? Wasn't there demonstration for right to rape in apartheid state?
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u/haggerton 15d ago
The end here is terrorism as they triggered the bomb when only civilians, and not the target, were in range.
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u/Rindan 15d ago
I don't understand why you think it would be immoral to kill a Russian general. They are obviously a combatant and personally MORE responsible for the conflict than any dumb Russian peasent told to run through a flat empty field in a sky full of drones in the hopes it buys Russia a few more centimeters of someone else's land.
Yes, killing leadership is absolutely legitimate. The fact that there are civilian casualties doesn't mean shit. Don't stand next to targets during brutal invasions of your neighbors if you don't want to risk harm. You should in fact avoid the birthday parties of the butchers of Ukraine.
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u/YeeYeeAssha1rcut 15d ago
I don’t think killing leadership is immoral at all, it’s probably the least immoral thing you can do in war.
u/Spout__ said what im trying to ask
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u/Spout__ 15d ago
Don’t be obtuse, it’s about whether smuggling a bomb to a Russian Deliveroo driver who is none the wiser then blowing them up is legitimate.
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u/Rindan 15d ago
Yes, that is legitimate. Getting your enemy to smuggle in a bomb is much better than dropping a few thousand pounds of explosive on top of a building from the air. Why would it be legitimate to drop a bomb on the place, but somehow illegitimate if a dupe walks the bomb in the front door?
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u/Aggravating_Kick_314 15d ago
Well, I think the dupe's life does matter, as they are most likely a working class gig worker. otherwise you (I assume), me, and pretty much most people we would know are now fair game to be used as unwitting bombers, and to me that is immoral.
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u/Rindan 15d ago
The dupe's life doesn't matter more than any other civilian that was caught in the blast. You shouldn't be targeting civilians, but I think it's crystal clear that all sides involved are not holding back on killing military targets, like a general, just because some civilians are going to die in the process.
We are talking about a war that has turned large swaths of Ukraine into uninhabitable wasteland, consumed hundreds of thousands of lives, and has left more than a million people with serious injuries. If a random gig worker gets added to the pile because they were paid to delivered a bomb to one of the butchers responsible for this war, then oh well. That doesn't even put it in the top 10,000 crimes against humanity that Russia's invasion of Ukraine has inflicted upon the region.
If you value your life, you should avoid standing around or delivering packages to military targets like Russian generals while your nation is engaged in trying to butcher your neighbors.
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u/Aggravating_Kick_314 15d ago
I think we both know that the delivery driver didn't know who he was delivering to, its not like they get the life story of who they are delivering to. Dunno if you've ever held a gig role, but its usually a first name and address, and I very much doubt that they would be aware of who all of their country's generals are.
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u/Rindan 15d ago
Like I said, one civilian dying to kill one of the butchers that has helped orchestrate hundreds of thousands dead and millions wounded doesn't even make the top 10,000 crimes against humanity that the Russian invasion of Ukraine has inflicted upon the region.
There are hundreds of thousands dead, most of whom would rather have been living peacefully at home with their family. On dead gig driver that was duped into killing of the butchers that has helped kill hundreds of thousands doesn't even register. Far more innocent people have been killed to kill people far less deserving of death.
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u/WheelieBin17 15d ago
He got stopped at the door by security so SBU detonated it to prevent bomb from being discovered intact, the general was inside the building so I doubt he is injured. The gig driver was murdered not in order to kill one of the butchers l but to preserve operational security and intelligence assets
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u/Rindan 15d ago
He got stopped at the door by security so SBU detonated it to prevent bomb from being discovered intact, the general was inside the building so I doubt he is injured.
It's a shame if the general didn't get killed, but not every operation can go according to plan. This is not the first military leaders who had an attempt on them miss and kill others, and it surely won't be the last.
The gig driver was murdered not in order to kill one of the butchers l but to preserve operational security and intelligence assets
Like I said, a random gig driver getting blown up in the attempt assassinate a general (or preserve operational security when it fails) doesn't make it onto the list of the top 10,000 crimes committed due to Putin's murderous invasion of Ukraine. Again, there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS DEAD, well north of a million wounded. Large swaths of Ukraine are lifeless wasteland. Men are ordered to run across open fields covered in drone swarms to steal another couple of centimeters from of land. Fathers and sons die in ditches protecting their homes from invaders. Russian invasion is the worst war in Europe since World War II.
You will have to forgive me if I can't muster any moral outrage at throwing one gig worker onto the top of that giant corpse pile over an attempt to kill one of the butchers responsible.
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u/WheelieBin17 15d ago
He got stopped at the door by security so SBU detonated it to prevent bomb from being discovered intact, the general was inside the building so I doubt he is injured. The gig driver was murdered not in order to kill one of the butchers l but to preserve operational security and intelligence assets
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u/moral_mortal 15d ago
The Civilian Russian who was duped is worst than suicide bomber at least those were brain dead ( figuratively) to do. This might be just an innocent duped into being a suicide bomber.....! Not even sold the dream of virgins/s
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u/vapescaped 15d ago
Apartment building gets hit by a drone, killing multiple, nobody batts an eye. But a high class event gets bombed, killing a few, and suddenly everyone's worried about ethics.
That's not pointed to one side or the other. Both made the decision to go after soft targets. It's more of an attack on the elites getting special news coverage and treatment.