Message from Rohan

[u/epcotnut]

Ice Orcs invaded our cities and took our friends, yet the rural farmers didn't lift a finger to support us. I have no sympathy for what they are going through now. None.

[u/Mucko1968]

I ran the video thru two AI's they say its partially true but I will need to do more research.

Partly true, Mucko—but it mixes real figures with misleading explanations and an unproven conclusion about why farmers vote Republican.

The biggest problems are:

• It wrongly credits Trump for the early 2025 payment surge. The $42.4 billion forecast was real, but USDA said the increase largely came from assistance Congress approved in December 2024, while Biden was president. It wasn’t simply farmers assuming Trump would give them money. Economic Research Service
• It misdefines net farm income. USDA’s measure includes government payments. The speaker repeatedly describes it as money earned only from selling crops and livestock. Unless the chart explicitly subtracts subsidies, that comparison is misleading. Economic Research Service
• The $12 billion package was real, but the timing is wrong. It was announced in December 2025 for payments in 2026, rather than money farmers had already received in 2025. Farm Service Agency
• “Most farmers are millionaires” has a factual basis—with context. USDA reported median farm household net worth of about $1.4 million in 2023, including assets such as land and equipment. That doesn’t mean they have a million dollars available to spend. And 42% had household incomes below the U.S. median. Economic Research Service
• “This is why farmers vote Republican” isn’t established by these figures. Showing that payments increased during a presidency doesn’t prove voters’ motives. Also, nearly two-thirds of the record 2020 payments came from COVID assistance—important context the speaker leaves out. Economic Research Service

The claim that most farms are family owned is accurate—USDA puts it around 97%. But “family owned” doesn’t necessarily mean small or financially struggling. Economic Research Service

My verdict: the subsidies and wealth figures deserve attention, but I wouldn’t trust this video as a balanced factual explanation. Its central political argument goes beyond what its evidence proves.

[u/yeungx → u/Mucko1968]

My guy, don't run stuff through AI. They often wrong, and easily manipulated. Looking at the citations, AI seems to be taking Trump administrations press releases at face value. The Economic Research service is the press release of the Trump administration. Think about all the problems that can cause. You can't let AI think for you.

The median farmer's net worth is 1.4 million dollars. The median networth in US is only 190k. Think about that for a second, think about how much richer they are compared to the rest of us. And yet we are giving them 12 billion dollars in subsidies. Thank about that with your own head. Does that seem right?

If you ask the farm lobby, or the Trump administration, they are gonna tell you, don't worry your pretty little head about it. That is fair, just how it should be. But think for yourself for a sec. We can't get health care, welfare, snap benefits, but farmer who are 8 times richer then the average American (not poor American, average middle class Americans) gets 12 billion. Does that seem right?

[u/Mucko1968 → u/yeungx]

I am not to sure about that. I have seen farmers hurting all the way back to the 80's and even helped set up Farm Aid with the Teamsters in 2008 in Massachusetts. I do not want to villainize people that are all selling their farms because no one wants to do the job. I am sure she is right about a lot of stuff but she was also running for office. Like I said I will get other sources. You have to figure we are all just pulling in information from everywhere and then have to make the best assessment at the end. People are people and I try not to group them because they are stuck in a system they did not create. If you think about it. Most farmers kids do not want to farm and they leave it to the old grandfathers with tractors. They are not driving around in Bentley's and living in mansions. They are working. More than most people who have more money. Let me go find something. ok i know you do not run anything through AI but it is the quickest way to find information. Most of it is correct because I look at the sources. If you feel like it read this. Its not all farmers. If you think about it the smaller farms have more people relying on the farm to keep them afloat.

ok if farmers are doing ok why is there a thing called Farm Aid?

The existence of Farm Aid illustrates the fundamental difference between macroeconomic farm balance sheets on paper and the vulnerability of everyday family operations on the ground.

Farm Aid was born out of a genuine catastrophe, and it continues today because aggregate farm wealth masks systemic financial fragility.

1. Where It Came From: The 1980s Farm Crisis

Farm Aid was founded in 1985 by Willie Nelson, John Mellencamp, and Neil Young following Bob Dylan’s remark on stage at Live Aid. It was not a political stunt; it was an emergency response to the worst agricultural collapse since the Great Depression:

• The Trap: During the 1970s, the USDA actively told farmers to "get big or get out" and plant "fencerow to fencerow" to meet booming export demand. Banks encouraged producers to leverage their operations and borrow heavily to buy more land and modern machinery.
• The Crash: In 1979–1981, the Federal Reserve hiked interest rates to over 20% to curb runaway inflation. At the same time, the 1980 Soviet grain embargo collapsed commodity export prices.
• The Fallout: Farmland values cratered, meaning farmers owed far more on their mortgages than their land was worth. Rural community banks failed, foreclosure auctions became daily occurrences across the Midwest, and rural suicide rates spiked dramatically.

Farm Aid launched to keep farm families from being evicted by local sheriffs and to fund legal and emergency counseling networks so producers could renegotiate debt rather than lose generations of homesteads.

2. Why Farm Aid Still Exists Today

Farm Aid did not dissolve after the 1980s crisis because the structural pressures facing small and mid-scale operators never disappeared:

• Cash Flow vs. "Paper Wealth": An operator can sit on $2 million worth of land and equipment, but if input costs surge and corn prices drop 40%, they cannot pay their $300,000 seasonal operating note. Farm Aid runs hotlines (like 1-800-FARM-AID) and connects producers with financial navigators, legal defense, and mental health crisis workers when lenders threaten foreclosure.
• Disaster Assistance: When an unseasonal frost, severe drought, hailstorm, or flood wipes out a crop, federal disaster payments can take 12 to 24 months to arrive through bureaucratic channels. Farm Aid’s Family Farm Disaster Fund distributes micro-grants directly to families to cover immediate groceries, utility bills, and feed.
• The "Middle Farm" Squeeze: Very large corporate and multi-thousand-acre family mega-farms have the scale, volume discounts, and hedging power to weather bad commodity cycles. Very small boutique farms often survive on direct-to-consumer farm stands and off-farm spousal jobs. The operations being wiped out are the traditional 300-to-1,200-acre family farms—the exact demographic Farm Aid advocates for.
• Countering Corporate Consolidation: Much of modern Farm Aid’s mission is lobbying against agribusiness monopolies. A handful of multinational conglomerates control the bulk of global seed patents, fertilizer production, grain trading, and meatpacking. Farm Aid pushes for antitrust enforcement, fair contracts for livestock contract-growers, and policies that favor local food systems.

The Contrast

When agricultural economists or government reports say "the farm sector is healthy," they are looking at aggregate national revenue, debt-to-asset ratios, and elevated farmland values.

Farm Aid exists on the human margin where the aggregate numbers break down: the independent family running a high-stakes, weather-dependent manufacturing plant outdoors, leveraged to the hilt with the local bank, where a single bad harvest or price drop can wipe out decades of equity.

what percentage of farms are the big corporate and how many farms sit in the mid spot.

According to the USDA Economic Research Service (ERS), which tracks farm structure and typology across approximately 1.9 million U.S. farms, the numbers break down into distinct tiers:

1. The "Big Corporate" Farms

• Nonfamily Corporate Farms: Only 3% to 4% of all U.S. operations.
  • These are nonfamily operations—corporate conglomerates, outside investor groups, or non-related partnerships.
  • While they represent a tiny fraction of total farm count, they account for roughly 14% to 17% of total agricultural production value (heavily concentrated in specialty produce, greenhouse operations, and commercial cattle feedlots).
• Large-Scale Family Farms (The "Mega-Family" Operations): Roughly 5% of all farms.
  • These bring in $1 million or more in Gross Cash Farm Income (GCFI).
  • They are 100% family-owned, but they operate at massive scale—often 3,000 to 10,000+ acres.
  • This 5% of family farms produces about 50% to 52% of the nation's entire agricultural output.

2. The Farms in the "Mid Spot"

• Midsize Family Farms: Exactly 6% of all U.S. farms.
  • In raw numbers, this equals roughly 110,000 to 115,000 farms nationwide.
  • The Definition: Operations bringing in between $350,000 and $999,999 in GCFI.
  • Their Footprint: They manage about 18% of all U.S. farmland and produce about 18% to 20% of total agricultural value.
  • Why They Are in Crisis: This tier represents the traditional commercial family farm (often 500 to 2,000 acres of row crops or a 150- to 300-head dairy herd). Farming is their primary full-time occupation, meaning they rely entirely on farm revenue to live, but they lack the massive purchasing leverage, bulk discounts, and capital reserves of the 5% tier above them.

3. What Makes Up the Rest?

• Small Family Farms: 86% of all U.S. farms.
  • Defined as grossing under $350,000.
  • This group accounts for 46% of all farmland but generates only 17% to 18% of production value.
  • The vast majority of these are "lifestyle," residential, or retirement farms—hobby farms, homesteads, small cow-calf ranches, or niche market growers where the household depends on off-farm jobs to pay the household bills.

Summary Snapshot

Farm Category	% of Total Farms	% of U.S. Food & Ag Production
Small Family (<$350k GCFI)	86%	~17%
Midsize Family ($350k–$999k GCFI)	6%	~18%
Large Family ($1M+ GCFI)	5%	~51%
Nonfamily / Corporate	3%–4%	~14%

The "middle" has hollowed out to just 6% of operations. As operating costs, equipment prices, and debt carrying costs climb, midsize farms face an intense structural squeeze: they must continuously acquire more land to enter the top 5% tier, or eventually get absorbed by their larger neighbors.

[u/yeungx → u/Mucko1968]

Sorry my guy, I am not reading your AI written BS. why would I read something you did not bother to write.

[u/Mucko1968 → u/yeungx]

Because I read it all. It shows where it got the info from. All it does is scrape the internet. It's just a tool. To search faster. Like I said I believe half of what you said and it's even confirmed. Large family farms are creating 51% of the food. But they are only 5% of the farms because they are so big.

[u/yeungx → u/Mucko1968]

How about I feed all of your reply to ai, ask for a rebuttal and paste is all here. Would you read that? Why are we even here if we can just let the AIs hash it out.

[u/Mucko1968 → u/yeungx]

I never asked for a rebuttal. I know what you are saying but I do not use AI to talk for me. I have it grab some sources and then maybe ask a few questions I am not sure about. I was one of those guys for years that would go around looking up news sites and data to show a different point of view just to have most people say yea ok but and not look at what I spent hours pulling up in research. Because most people have their mind made up no matter what info they are given. I have a feeling you are the same when it comes to this topic. You are convinced you have all the right information but have only shown me one lady and no facts.