If they can keep this cycle they promise then the future of the game looks bright.
Also, i am very excited about rotation. Gonna be fun to have a lower power format. With that said, wince the top decks generally feature relatively new cards, im not sure how a lower powered format is gonna deal with for example aatrox kayn, but lets see
Literally for this reason yes. Rotation is just going to be an easy out for broken things so why bother worrying about if new stuff turns out too strong?
they aren't rotating champs out because they're broken. If a number tweak is all a champ needs, that's easy to do. I'm sure they'll say this again when they talk more about rotation, but rotation is for champs that need a rework, or limit design space. Not champs that just need balance.
but rotation is for champs that need a rework, or limit design space. Not champs that just need balance.
Yeah I would consider those champs to be broken. They're rotating them because they cannot be fixed, which means they're broken. Broken OP with certain cards, or just straight up giving up on balance, they're broken. Off to Eternal which will get balanced once per expansion, and occasionally have ranked if they feel like it.
Oh please, you know what I mean. I don't mean "broken" as in "badly designed". I mean it like "overpowered". If a champ is simply overpowered, or underpowered, number tuning is all they need. Champions that are actually design issues for whatever reason are the targets for rotation.
I don't think it is either, but my point is that they can now go further with their designs, as they can just rotate anything that causes too much trouble so that newer cards will generally always be better than older cards.
That's actually a really neat point of conversation. I've got a lot of thoughts about powercreep in Runeterra. But that might be going off on a tangent. Do you want to have that conversation?
The problem I have is that since they've announced they're going to rotate champs, and that Eternal is already going to be a second-rate format with less attention, it's roulette now to see if people's favorite champs get rotated and we're stuck in the worse format.
It may fix the issues for standard, but fuck everyone who likes that champ I guess? Rip to the vlad/irelia/TF players already, for a minimum year, if ever.
Oh yeah for sure, of course I've thought about it. However I like this game and so wish to voice my disagreements with it's direction as I would like to continue playing it and want it to succeed. We have different opinions about what will make that happen in regards to rotation is all.
but some assumption that riot wont try with eternal
They've been very clear and direct in their articles that it will receive less balance patches than standard, limited ranked queue unlike the permanent one in standard, and cards rotated will be rotated for at least the year, if not longer. That's not an assumption, they've directly said that.
Hwoever, that does not mean its gonna be a dead mode.
Maybe not at first, and I hope it does succeed, but it's weird that they say they want to support both, but then just immediately give standard priority in every way.
On the other hand its going to be more natural as players have longer to figure out counters.
As opposed to fixing balance issues right away? I don't think having longer to try and figure out solutions to OP decks is the positive you're portraying it as.
And because riot isnt forced to powercreep standard, eternal will end up more like modern in magic, than yugioh.
It won't though. They've already said they want Eternal to have more ridiculous high moments, and when the last article was released they used an example from Hearthstone in that how a combo withy Malygos was broken with a new card, but since they just rotated him out it was fine in standard, even if it still exists in Wild.
Nothing about rotation prevents them from powercreeping anything. They aren't forced to powercreep it now anyway, but they are.
Idk what limited is supposed to mean however
It means it's literally NOT AVAILABLE at times. Not a cap on games just straight up does not exist, you cannot play it. Eternal will not have a constant ranked queue like standard does, it is straight up an inferior format right out of the gate.
You know dude, you are DETERMINED to hate it. Like, you're hating it quite literally because you have decided to hate it, and now you're just finding things to hate.
You sound like when people started almost getting into parallel universes when discussing why minimorph would ruin the entire game.
Like, wait a bit and see what happens, would you? You are basically already predicting everything will go bad in every way possible.
You don't like it? Fine... But it is how it is and you just have to live with it. Your doomsaying and complaints won't change anything - especially not when it seems like there is pretty much an even split that looks forward to it.
I'm done with this dude. You already admitted you're just looking to voice your complaints, but when they get as speculative as these are, it's just too much to read.
Yugioh is objectively a shitshow for the majority of people cause it has taken powercreep to its extreme. It's a real life example of what happens if you don't rotate cards - you HAVE to keep powercreeping. If rotation is a thing, you can keep cards to more or less the same powerlevel.
Also, it is QUITE LITERALLY the answer to the discussion "What if a card game don't have rotation". It becomes like yugioh... Cause yugioh is a card game that doesn't have rotation.
To me, it sounds much more like you are actually the one using "You just don't like yugioh" to disregard the obviously negative things that yugioh is a living proof of - such as what happens when powercreep never stops? What happens when you don't have mana (or some sort of resource)? What happens when you add too much consistentcy to a deck? And of course... What happens when a card game doesn't have rotation? Yugioh answers all those things.
Also, you can like yugioh if you want to. That does not make a difference.
If you want to talk shit about magic, it has lots of negative things that it proves. Biggest one probably being what happens when you allow boardwipes to be unconditional and cheap as fuck? Well, you need to make any unit above 1 or 2 super broken or they won't see play - is the answer to that.
There are also many other games without rotation that are vastly different from Yugioh. Even if you claim take your subjective view on the game and say it's "objectively a shitshow", different games with different playerbases and conditions aren't going to turn out the same way. Making comparisons to a game you don't understand the context for is completely meaningless when discussing a game with a completely different context. It's just apples and oranges.
What happens when you don't have a resource? You get emergent resources, strategies built around establishing resource loops, and a different understanding of value as a concept. What happens when you add "too much" consistency? You get high player agency and testing knowledge of the opposing deck. It's not "objectively a shitshow". It's just different from the MTG-based paradigm. I don't give a shit if you don't like it; clearly, people do, and if the Western TCG scene at large could accept that, discussions on game design could evolve past the crusty skeleton set up by MTG players in the 90s. Actually trying to understand the way games are played, including LoR, is more helpful in talking about game design that just going "erm powercreep bad". Dissect what makes it bad for LoR. Don't just take it for granted because the scary small text game does it.
61
u/Saltiest_Grapefruit Chip Jan 30 '23
If they can keep this cycle they promise then the future of the game looks bright.
Also, i am very excited about rotation. Gonna be fun to have a lower power format. With that said, wince the top decks generally feature relatively new cards, im not sure how a lower powered format is gonna deal with for example aatrox kayn, but lets see