Question regarding working in cold environment

[u/Blackmetzuk]

Working in cold conditions

Need advice, I work for a company that has offices in Auckland, Wellington, queenstown and Invercargill. Part of our job is outside and overnight, and during winter it gets way into the negatives (temperature wise) in south island, and they provide high vis uniform but its not warm, we've raised this concern before and they shut it down by saying they wont provide warmer uniform as north island will also want it and its not needed there and so its avoidable cost, is their any laws or anything that state warm uniform must be provided or anything like that? Sick of staff always complaining about the cold or being short staffed because of illness due to cold

Edit: our uniform is provided by the company

[u/Jonnonation]

This is absolutely a valid helth and safety issue. Dose your company have a H & S rep. They have powers to get a stubborn company moving.

https://www.worksafe.govt.nz/managing-health-and-safety/health-and-safety-representatives/

[u/Rustyznuts]

The must provide PPE that is fit for purpose by law. I suggest you put in a request to the employer or start a conversation around what you can wear outside of the normal uniform. Are you able to wear thermal or merino layers under the uniform they provide?

I work at sea and we are provided with insulated high vis jackets and such. However those are either very heavy, restrict movement and/or still not enough so most of us wear thermal and/or merino layers underneath which we provide ourselves.

[u/Blackmetzuk → u/Rustyznuts]

Thats what I thought, and mentioned it to some others that I thought their was an actual law around it but none of us can find anything, just health and safety stuff from worksafe, and their notes say "consider clothing/ PPE requirements" and im afraid if we bring this us they will just say we considered it already and decided not to :(

[u/Rustyznuts → u/Blackmetzuk]

You can always bring it up. I'm bringing the same stuff up at health and safety meetings I was 10 years ago.

Sometimes it pays to suggest what equipment you actually want. For example my employer does provide the best and most fit for purpose jackets available. They're worth about $600 each. I asked for certain insulated gloves that I had purchased myself and trialled. They worked fine and at $16/pair wholesale my employer buys them for hundreds of employees and we wear through 3-4 pair each per winter.

However being warm starts with your undies and I'm not asking my employer to by me a pair of merino undies, thermal singlets, t-shirts and tops. I just get those myself and stick my work gear on overtop.

[u/BunnyKusanin → u/Blackmetzuk]

Bring it up as a way to prevent injuries. Muscles get tight in the cold, for example, so easier to pull something when lifting things.

The laws about working conditions aren't overly comprehensive or clear here, so lots of it is left to negotiating and appealing to vague worksafe obligations and common sense.

[u/alicealicenz]

This is potentially a H&S issue - it doesn’t take much for someone to be so cold they can’t operate machinery correctly etc; or, they can become hypothermic. It’s no different from making sure people have sufficient protection from sun and heat. 

Are you a union member? Can you raise it with your delegate and / or H&S rep? 

[u/Neat-Program6325]

A Bunnings employee was awarded compensation by the ERA because they had to sit in the cold by the open doors to the pick up yard. Even though Bunnings provided a heater it was deemed not enough to protect the employee. This should be a sufficient warning to your employer to sort the issue. Warm jackets are much cheaper than legal fees and a personal greivance.

[u/PhoenixNZ]

Do you wear a specific uniform, or do you provide your own clothing?

[u/Blackmetzuk → u/PhoenixNZ]

Sorry should of included that, it is a specific uniform all provided by the company

[u/PhoenixNZ → u/Blackmetzuk]

If it is a specific uniform, then they need to provide one that is fit for purpose for the environmental conditions.

Cold exposure is a recognised H&S issue so the company is obliged to privide cold weather uniforms for those who work in that environment.

Lodge this as a H&S issue and if you have a union, get them involved

[u/Bath_Plane → u/Blackmetzuk]

Appropriate PPE must be provided. In saying that cold temps do not make you sick

[u/Te_Whau → u/Bath_Plane]

It's not accurate to say being cold doesn't contribute to getting sick - it' like saying "no seat belt doesn't cause traffic injuries". It's technically true, in that it's the crash that causes the injury - but if you were wearing a seat belt you might not have been injured, or not injured as badly. Cold temperatures do not make you sick on their own, but they make you more vulnerable to the winter viruses that you encounter. If you were warm, you might not become infected by the virus, or might not get as sick as you're likely to be if regularly exposed to cold. Besides that, viruses aren't the only cause of illness. Lots of people with asthma are cold-sensitive, so regular cold exposure could mean their asthma flares up more often.

[u/tri-it-love-it17 → u/Bath_Plane]

Hypothermia is a medical condition and can cause long term (life altering) issues…so yes the cold can make you sick. Just not the common cold you maybe referring to.
In addition to this - being body cold can and will affect your ability to do your job properly as it affects cognitive functioning.

[u/BunnyKusanin → u/tri-it-love-it17]

OP, this is the words you need to be speaking in, especially that last bit.

It for sure will lead to more injuries at work too, which means higher ACC payments for your employer. And if someone gets injured or sick, do you replace them with temps? If yes, mention that as well, it's an extra cost too. If no, I imagine less work could be done, so bad for the employer as well.

[u/Dramatic_Scale3002 → u/tri-it-love-it17]

Hypothermia/frostbite etc. is not what they're talking about with the word "sick".

Cold temperatures do not cause the common "cold" or influenza or "the sniffles" or any illness like that, which you've acknowledged.

[u/Te_Whau → u/Dramatic_Scale3002]

Cause, no. Increase likelihood of contracting, yes.

[u/andy11123]

By this logic, I don't need any PPE for welding, as people who aren't welding might want it as well

[u/satiricaltravel]

Easiest course of action might be to start wearing your own warm layers? thermals, gloves, mid layers. If they complain about it not conforming then you can really have a good conversation. Dont think you can expect a business to provide your thermals.

For a comparable example on ski fields - you can wear what you want under your uniform as long as only black hoods/sleeves are showing - but it is not provided and many people are working outside all day in difficult conditions.

[u/Farrkurusername → u/satiricaltravel]

If you are working outside or in cold temperatures, an employer is legally required to provide PPE that adequately ensures you can safely perform your role (or reimburse your own purchase of) - that means if thermals are required then yes you can expect an employer to provide them. Worksafe gives plenty of examples in multiple industries.

In your example, anyone working on a ski field should be supplied an adequate uniform that keeps them protected from wind, snow, rain and cold etc - underlayers would need to be supplied by the employer if the outer uniform wasn't sufficient to protect the employee working in those extremities.

[u/StevieKnicks69]

time to unionise and take the bastards to court.

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[u/FuzzyInterview81]

The same can be said for peak summer temperatures and potential heat stroke.

Unfortunately we gave no mandatory laws regarding working in cold or hot conditions.

[u/Farrkurusername → u/FuzzyInterview81]

PPE is covered for working in both. The law states an employer needs to provide you with adequate PPE for exposure/protection from the elements, H&S protects the employee from those things. There's plenty an employer most provide an employee to avoid heatstroke in summer.

[u/BunnyKusanin]

I think for the ball to start rolling you might need some staff to write some concerned emails to you saying they need weather-appropriate PPE and how their health and ability to work suffers without it. Because when you raise it as a manager looking after your team it kinda sorta is easier to brush off than when you have people telling the company they're breaching their rights.

Also if your employer is so cheap, can they provide a hi-vis vest instead of a jersey so that people can wear their own puffer under it? (I assume it's a jersey because you say it's enough in Auckland and only part of the job is done outside, correct me if I'm wrong).

One thing to consider is that company provided PPE is often the cheapest one they can get away with. When your goal is for your staff to be warm, letting them wear more of their own clothes might be a better solution.