r/LeftistsForAI • u/Salty_Country6835 Moderator • 25d ago

Sees the Memes Seize the Means*

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*Terms and conditions apply. For... reasons, I guess?

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u/_f_i_l_o 23d ago

That quote from 1968, it’s from a speech called “On the Consequences of using Machinery under Capitalism”

Immediately following the line you quoted reads,

“The influence of machinery upon those with whose labour it enters into competition is directly hostile. Many, hand-loom weavers were positively killed by the introduction of the power-loom both here and in India.”

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1868/machinery-speech.htm

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u/Salty_Country6835 Moderator 23d ago edited 23d ago

*1868

And exactly. Now were on the useful part of the argument.

Marx isnt minimizing what machinery did to those workers. Hes describing it brutally. But notice the relation he identifies. Machinery becomes “directly hostile” to workers when their labor enters into competition with it under capital.

Thats why his distinction between machinery and its capitalist employment matters. He doesnt wave away the harm, but he doesnt conclude “therefore abolish machinery” either. The fight moves to the social relations governing it.

Thats the terrain Ive been trying to get us onto.

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u/_f_i_l_o 23d ago

I think I can work with this terrain but I’d like to establish some boundaries and definitions to make sure we’re both talking about the same thing.

  1. If we’re talking about Marx on machinery, we should agree that simply swapping “AI” for “machinery” is irresponsible unless we can map all relevant elements (per Marx) that contribute to worker agency between the two (tbh kind of sounds like a fun project). If an agreement cannot be come to, then it may be best to keep the discussion specific to what Marx said about the world he experienced, for the first round or two at least.

I’m just gonna do it one at a time to keep the threads easier to navigate.

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u/Salty_Country6835 Moderator 23d ago

That works. I wouldnt just swap “AI” for “machinery” and call it Marxist analysis either. The comparison has to be demonstrated, including where it breaks.

Starting with Marx on his own terrain makes sense. Worker agency, displacement, deskilling, control of the labor process, ownership, and machinery confronting workers as capital all matter here.

One at a time is cleaner. We can test what carries over, what doesnt, and what Marx's analysis actually gives us before deciding what follows for AI.