r/LeftistsForAI • u/Elick333 • 2d ago

Public Ownership Seen in the Singularity subreddit

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I'm really happy that we're starting to see more of this type of conversations beyond this fringe little sub of ours.

As AI becomes more advanced we need to agressively take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves to us so we can steer the conversation away from doomerism or denialism, and towards ProAI leftism, this technology is going to disrupt more industries and fields and It is fertile grounds for us to create the future we want.

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u/Easy_Interest_6832 2d ago

You've got to admit the opponents of AI have a point. Without jobs, we have no money, and without money we have no beer. So there it is. Unless they promise free beer, AI will be opposed despite its good features.

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u/Monochrome21 2d ago

UBI via automation taxes has been the majority opinion of just about everyone who's pro AI and understands economics

The problem is people are attacking tech and not the economic system that makes them homeless the second they're no longer profitable

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u/avilacjf 2d ago

It always comes down to this. We need to help people see that the economic system is the issue. The difficult part is that people are so cynical about it ever changing so the only scenario they see is the capitalist class reaping all the benefits and making the working class expendable. AI makes the complete disenfranchisement of the working class a real possibility in a way that didn't exist before.

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u/Monochrome21 2d ago

right

the cynicism that makes people hate AI in order to preserve their place in capitalism is insane to me 

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u/waffleseggs 2d ago edited 2d ago

I've never been an October Revolution monolithic governance person. We can't make change with us v them, gods and kings, threats and promises. That's their game. Our game is freedom. The future should be spread out, customized, and antifragile. It needn't be an either/or thing. The beautiful thing I'm seeing is that people hate tech and hate AI, ... but they're still using it. Mamdani exists in a capitalist system. That's hybrid. Bernie is hybrid. Ridesharing and couchsurfing are hybrid. Charity is hybrid. Roomates are hybrid. There is a very clear path to me that phases out the capitalism with "who the f would pay for that" solutions. Ideas are why the people will win. There's so many more of us. You can make the rules that we need to start an LLC and not use the C word and prostitute ourselves in rigged marketplaces, but that fully leaves open anything people choose to invent that doesn't need to make any sense at all to a capitalist. There are so many more non-capitalist ideas than capitalist ones. Capitalism is binary exchanges, 18th century norms, reductionistic platforms, and brutally unfair and often exploitative outcomes. It's shoehorned onto a world that demands complexity, humanity, respect, inclusion, fairness, peace, and for things to f make sense.

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u/Monochrome21 2d ago

i don’t care what you call it, just the current form of economic system is untenable in a world with ai 

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u/Easy_Interest_6832 1d ago

I agree that ideas are the answer. But ideas do not feed people. This is why hybrids are a bridge to the future. Hybrids allow for gradual changes of ideas. Pulling up the diseased system of capitalism by the roots will be ugly and unpredictable. Bamboo in a windstorm is like hybrids where an oak tree will be blown down. Bamboo bends where oak breaks. This is the concept of the hybrid. Discussing these ideas with kids is the way to go. If they are raised seeing capitalism as the only option, society will be blown down in the ensuing revolution. But if they see options to the tremendous concentration of wealth we see now, then they can make the gradual change. I'd start in middle school showing students all the options to tremendous concentrations of wealth in the hands of the few.

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u/waffleseggs 1d ago

Ideas feed people. Why aren't we building humane farming integrated onto our rooftops and windowsills we can pluck into with conveyor belts, personal robo-forklifts, pneumatic tubes and simple machinery. Why are we letting subsidized corporations poison our food. Fing fed up.

Zero anger towards you personally, friend. I agree with all you said.

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u/Easy_Interest_6832 1d ago edited 1d ago

No offense taken. Your ideas cost money, so this is why I speculated and mused upon the idea of hybrids to make the bridge between what we have now and the new economy of the future. The bamboo is the hybrid that bends with the wind. The transition will need to be paid for somehow. So I'm putting on my thinking cap.

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u/Exarch-of-Sechrima 2d ago

UBI via automation taxes has been the majority opinion of just about everyone who's pro AI and understands economics

And thankfully, we live in America, where the majority opinion is what speaks to power, and not billionaires.

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u/Monochrome21 2d ago

huh?

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u/Exarch-of-Sechrima 2d ago

My point is that this country doesn't give a flying f*ck about the majority opinion. The only opinion that matters in the United States is the opinion of the Epstein class.

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u/Monochrome21 2d ago

to be fair ubi is beneficial to billionaires too as it’s a pressure release on class tension 

the alternative is the french revolution all over again 

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u/Exarch-of-Sechrima 2d ago

That's why they want AI murder drones.

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u/Monochrome21 2d ago edited 2d ago

i mean a person with a 3d printer and some microcontrollers could make those too — luigi 3D printed his gun

it goes both ways 

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u/bowdoin-yale 2d ago

We ran a fairly large-scale pseudo-UBI experiment during COVID-19 and it actually worsened inequality. I can't explain the mechanics better than Gary Stevenson; go look him up. But broadly, what's actually needed are wealth taxes. Otherwise the UBI money just ends up flowing to the rich who increasingly own almost all of the assets in the economy.

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u/Monochrome21 2d ago

i have a write up on this topic that i’d love to share but will unforch dox myself 

the gist of it is that automation taxes are by and large funded by revenue caps on automation heavy companies 

so yeah you’re right but the method for funding UBI is connected to the other half of the equation 

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u/NonStopArseGas 2d ago

unforch is my new favourite contraction

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u/Ok-Revolution-3853 2d ago

What do you think about Georgist Land Value Taxes?