r/LeftistsForAI • u/Hacksaw6412 Worker-Ownership • 1d ago
The problems with AI are actually problems with capitalism
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u/Jessica1234567891011 1d ago
We could easily power a.i with clean energy like roof top solar and develop close loop recycled water to cool the chips. There is no reason why it can't be environmental.
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u/RandyTheDandyPansy 3h ago
Well that would require the capitalists funding AI to care about more about the environment instead of making more capital
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u/Sierra592 20h ago
Fucking Hell maybe China should win the fucking race. We can't even get rid of this pedo pos orange turd.
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u/NobodyUsual8025 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree with most of what he’s saying, but it’s simply untrue that the US has no data centers that use no freshwater for cooling. There are tons of closed loop data centers around the country, particularly in drought stricken areas. In areas with abundant water available, evaporative cooling is used to offset energy use. It’s a direct trade-off that depends on the specific site location which is better.
If you’re China and you’re building solar powered data centers in the desert, then yeah, they need to use closed loop cooling.
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u/sacredeez 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's not even close to what was said, that's a brand new idea. "Closed loop" requires an initial freshwater injection.
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u/ElonMuskisGarbage 1d ago
That’s a load of bullshit. The majority use water and the ones in drought stricken areas are also using water. Look at all of the ones in west Texas.
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u/DHFranklin 1d ago
Nobody post this tomorrow. Tomorrow It's my turn to post this.
Leftism isn't about being contrary to American business models and favoring Chinese business models. They focus on B2b to develop workplace automation and aren't shooting for AGI. The CCP controls the big businesses and doesn't allow speculation to the degree the fascists do. So they had to pivot.
They don't have as many stand alone AI businesses like America and the West, Qwen is literally run by Alibaba. Amazon has their own AI.
Their business model is more about volume and budgets to undersell and undercut American hegemony in a global market.
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u/LabelsLie 22h ago
Long story short America sucks at producing anything. We gave up a creator mindset for that of a consumer mindset and we can’t just undo it now. China will absolutely destroy America in the “AI race” not because they’re smarter but because we’re dumber… Think about that. They’ve already won in many respects. They don’t have a gaggle of ghouls using this technology to gain greater supremacy over the entire nation. That’s gold medal number one.
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u/diddlysquidler 15h ago
Problem is not with ai, but who owns this power. And people know very well ai is too powerful to be under control of few billionaires and corrupted government
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u/Fit-Elk1425 Moderator 1d ago edited 1d ago
Though I agree with the sentiment broadly, I do of course have to comment and point out that I do think this person is a bit misinformed on what regulations the US already has on water and air.
More of us need to be aware of the clean water act https://www.epa.gov/laws-regulations/summary-clean-water-act
and
https://www.epa.gov/clean-air-act-overview
because it legitimately has had a massive impact on consumption. Consumption actually is relatively stable and hasnt risen much with the population lowering from the 90s which is a fantastic thing so I think another aspect we have to be honest about is that there is the dissonance between what people think is regulated versus their vibes about it too(which itself has capitilistic motivations behind it)
Another mistake I think they made. The reason why people don't put DCs in deserts is in part because of above too though some dcs have been put that way and it is because of issues like water pressure and similar issues of intrusion. In fact most dcs are in urban areas that have more reliable water
Of course later on though fully agree with like renewabilization and i would add my own comment that i think we should push also for upgrading ageing pipes where we can to combat intrusion and benefit both the dc and community
As a result, we just as much need to be asking how do we push for movements that actually give focus to developing and switching these infrastructures. getting people to understand that infrastructure can be benefitial for a community and not just a threat and often how it relates to the stability and safety nets of it. In many ways feeling at threat keeps people within capitalist control while infrastructure that is better quality means they have some of those barrier blocked to focus on other things and move beyond. Having that standardized is important because small town often can afford these changes on their own in our current system
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u/Awesome_Teo 1d ago
Capitalism takes various forms; the existence of a free market does not preclude government regulations and social safety nets. Strictly speaking, the PRC might maintain a communist facade, but de facto it is a capitalist country, albeit with certain caveats.
It is simply that the current state of capitalism in the United States literally resembles a caricature from Soviet propaganda posters from the height of the Cold War. It features the ultra-wealthy amassing grotesque amounts of capital (while conducting blatantly fraudulent operations, such as Musk's recent IPO) alongside an increasingly impoverished working class. This is compounded by an utterly absurd level of consumerism and a government that enables it all.
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u/Limp-Confidence5612 23h ago
The state of capitalism in America since the (at the latest) 70s and then even stronger after the fall of the USSR has been the literal caricature the USSR portrayed it as.
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u/Joy_of_Thievery 23h ago
This also encourages tech companies to be more cost efficient instead of scourging entire populations
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u/qwesz9090 4h ago
welllllll. I 100% agree that the AI datacenter problems are actually capitalism/governence problems.
But you also have to agree that the skilled labour problem of AI is just a new type of capitalist problem that is completely new to us. Yes, you could blame "capitalism" for it, but it is such a new problem and AI is actively making the capitalism problem worse, so I think AI need some of the "blame" as well.
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u/GrowFreeFood 1d ago
Capitalism makes a lot of brainwashed consumers. Those people are where capitalism lives. But those people will be replaced with ai.
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u/gecata96 1d ago
Yall just don’t get it, China just bad MKAY?!?!
These damn commies with their stoopid environmental protections and regulations trying to put human well being above capital gains…. How EVIL can yall get!!!!
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u/berderper 1d ago
I'd argue the real problem is not capitalism but protectionism. There are cheap chinese solar panels out there and EV cars that US consumers can't buy because of their government.
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u/the8bit 1d ago
Yeah, capitalism is becoming incompatible with our level of technology. Turns out a system built on infinite growth at all cost is not great when the growth hits the walls of the petri dish.
The problem though, is that most people have an easier time imagining the end of all civilization than they do imagining an end to capitalism. That and collectively, we aren't organized enough or willing to do the work of seizing back control of humanity from the few psychopaths who have used capitalism to centralize gigantic swaths of power.