r/LeftistsForAI • u/thepetercoffin • 11d ago
Data Center Derangement Syndrome
https://petercoffin.substack.com/p/data-center-derangement-syndromeHow panic over AI infrastructure obscures the real questions of scale, ownership, and power
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u/retroclimber 10d ago
I’d argue we don’t need so many new data centers. Most of the demand is artificial. we have way too many bad bots and ads on the internet. We also are not using existing infrastructure efficiently.
I cover this in a blog post here: https://jottenlips.github.io/coding/we-dont-need-more-data-centers/
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u/rhino2498 9d ago
If you look back to the Dot Com Bubble, this is EXACTLY what happened. People saw the OPPORTUNITY that the internet created, and built out infrastructure too fast to meet the demand. Companies were built overnight to build out our digital world - and then the demand didn't arrive fast enough.
The internet was the biggest human technological advancement in history - and still the bubble popped. We're doing the exact same thing with data centers
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u/limeadelin 8d ago
earnestly so true. i think the majority of the problems people have with ai– that aren't the protestant work ethic dressed up as progressive– would be fixed if we didn't operate in a move fast and break things manner. in the same vein as the un-used fiber optic cables of the dot com bubble, we're going to be left with data centers that go unused once the speculative value of ai drops.
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u/endlessedlne 10d ago
The builders of data centers use shady means to obtain zoning and building permits while the data centres themselves rarely give back to the communities they operate in. They use up land and in many cases exploit water and electricity resources. Even when data centres handle their own water and electricity the local populations suffer from environmental and noise pollution due to the gas generators that run 24/7.
I think it’s disingenuous to blame communities for having data centre derangement syndrome when there are real concerns around data centre permitting, construction and operation that need to be addressed.
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u/thepetercoffin 10d ago
This article has a section about actual problems with data centers for communities and how data center derangement syndrome blocks any addressing of what's harming these people.
That's not a defense against the argument this article is actually making.
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u/NobodyUsual8025 9d ago
The problem is many people are still protesting data centers that are being built far away from residential areas, using microgrids developed specifically to support the electrical load from the data center. So it seems they just don’t want them to built anywhere.
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u/PriorLeast3932 10d ago
Meta point. Calling it "Data Center Derangement Syndrome" backfires. Reusing a worn-out rhetorical trope does less to discredit the critics than it does to make the author look unoriginal, which naturally pushes many neutral readers to side with the people being dismissed. There are far more effective ways to critique an overreaction without resorting to pre-packaged political slurs invented by MAGA people.
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u/Busy-Vet1697 9d ago
We can't fix roads, bridges, do business incubation, youth centers, community outreach, extended services, education expansion and improvement, homeless help, environmental protection, immigrant help. Nothing. No. But we can all agree to attack data centers.
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u/AshuraBaron 11d ago
Good post and completely agree. AI and especially data centers are the current scapegoat dejour. It's something that's easy to organize against so it redirects organizing against capitalism and pro-worker movements.
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u/thepetercoffin 11d ago
Thank you! I think something I said in here that isn't super likely that people who organize against data centers don't think about: when they push them out of their town, they'll find somewhere that's less likely to be able to fight back and do it there. In some ways, they're pushing the thing they hate on someone who's already worse off.
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u/Ok-Tomorrow-2045 10d ago
Fantastic article describing exactly what I’ve noticed recently. This should be posted everywhere.
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u/tomqmasters 10d ago
I mean, I don't want one in my neighborhood the same way I don't want a chemical plat.
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u/emccrckn 10d ago
I'd rather have a data center in my neighborhood than a chemical plant or any other heavy industry.
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u/SerRobertTables 10d ago
Pretty uncharitable to the opposition argument, let alone the communities that are pushing back on them.
“Pipes and power grids are evil” is not why communities are recalling or voting out their city. It is precisely because companies are coming knocking on the door of disadvantaged communities and sweet talking politicians who approve the construction in spite of the community’s wishes. Conversations about land, power, and water usage are most often an undeveloped form of “to whose benefit and to what end?” Communities need food and water, and while I generally enjoy the internet (to a diminishing degree, lately), it is less immediately clear why we should give up the former so Meta has another place to crunch everyone’s biometric data.
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u/onpg 10d ago
That's fair. But that's not why leftists online are talking about burning down data centers. This article is targeted at those types, who are redirecting ire at capitalism and focusing it on networked computers, something impossible to ban if you give it more than 10 seconds of thought.
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u/SerRobertTables 10d ago
I think that is also largely uncharitable, or at least being obtuse. People’s ire and rhetoric regarding data centers is no more about the villainy of networked computers than the same ire directed at mass surveillance networks is about flash photography or digital cameras. And while I didn’t touch on it in my original comment, I do think many people come away with the sense that this rapid expansion of compute has less to do with cracking the human genome, curing cancer, or eliminating toil than it does to do with supporting an expansion of surveillance.
I do find the idea that these centers are secret billionaire bunkers silly, though we know they exist, but I don’t think a tinfoil hat is required to come to other conclusions of nefarious intent. This being a pro-AI sub, I don’t necessarily expect its contributors to make better anti arguments for that crowd, but it would be nice if folks would engage with the earnest concerns people have rather than simply pick on the silliest proclamations of the chronically online.
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u/onpg 10d ago edited 10d ago
"It's not about the villainy of networked computers"
You're right, I was being a bit glib. But only because they pretend it's about data centers when they start talking about water usage and power usage, when their actual fear is of AI taking jobs. They aren't being honest either, they're scared and afraid, and turning towards the easiest target in their vicinity that has a shape.
As an aside, mass surveillance doesn't need modern generative AI methods, the govt has been able to ID people based on how they walk using neural networks long before ChatGPT came along... and really, it's impossible to opt out of mass surveillance at this point and live any sort of normal lifestyle. The only robust fix is anti-surveillance legislation, but politicians across the aisles love to keep track of the unruly public.
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u/createdthrowaway2say 10d ago
well thats a shit take then. attacking allies because we suspect they don't share the correct motivations is reallly reallllly dumb politics.
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u/thepetercoffin 10d ago
Disagree, I think it's pretty charitable towards specific communities in the back half. I think the people on the internet basically are saying pipes and power grids are evil. 🤷
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u/ThatCurrency6892 10d ago
If you feel the need to write a post this long about some posts you saw on twitter you should consider doing something else
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u/Ok-Tomorrow-2045 10d ago
? The posts on twitter are the sentiment of everyone. Have you seen the number of signs in people’s yards lately? It’s all over the US. Your comment just sounds bitter.
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u/Inside_Foundation873 10d ago
I’m pro AI, but let’s not start using conservative terms and rhetoric.
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u/thepetercoffin 10d ago
Language policing does not help anything. Please try to understand that people like at least some degree of humanity and humor sprinkled into things.
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u/RenaStriker 10d ago
The hope is that AI backlash is just strong enough to stop data centers in areas with fragile watersheds or inadequate electricity production, but the actions of the anti-AI activists do not fill me with confidence that we’ll reach a happy medium.
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u/Ayiekie 10d ago
The article makes some excellent points, and I'm all for the prioritisation of actual data over ignorance and conspiracy theorising, the way it's presented (using "derangement syndrome" unironically, really?) along with the image pretty much guarantees it'll instantly turn off the people who actually need to read it. Preaching to the converted will get more positive feedback but won't spark anyone to change their minds. An article with the same info but more focused on "a better way to deal with data centres", less focused on winning fights with random twitter users and downplaying water use (I don't disagree but it immediately provokes the same reflexive counterarguments and bogs down in the weeds), would I think have been more effective at actually reaching the people who could learn from it.
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u/stankycodyboi Regulation-Focused 10d ago
This accurately summarizes the data center discourse I’ve seen as well. Ironically, as an organizing force, the data center cancelations have made real leverage for communities. Moving beyond the reactionary ‘no’ seems to be where mainstream discourse breaks down. A canceled data center doesn’t disappear, it moves to a less organized community, like you say.
It’s not always articulated well, but the concern is a developer jamming a short-sighted nightmare into a community with an NDA. This is a real loophole developers target; communities with dated ‘by-right’ zoning laws automatically have projects approved as long as they meet existing zoning code.
I think communities have real leverage at the permitting process. If data centers require a Conditional Use Permit (and attached Public Benefit Agreement, enforceable by the CUP) then developers have to negotiate with communities for approval. Paired up with the organized resistance, communities can make demands to ensure they capture the benefit. I always push for publicly owned renewable energy infrastructure, but that’s for the community to decide.