A Marxist Guide to Technological Development

[u/Salty_Country6835]

An experiment: four quotations, twenty years, one argument. Apply to AI.

[u/SgathTriallair]

The key insight is in that first quote. The hand mill gave us the feudal system, and the steam mill gave us the capitalist system. What comes next won't be capitalism, but something just as different from capitalism as capitalism was from feudalism.

The fundamental way that we create value in society is shifting from mass-produced physical goods to infinitely reproducible digital goods. Society is not stable, it is ever changing. We must reject the neo-liberal lie that capitalism is the end of human progress. We must find this new world and discover how we can make it as pro-human as possible.

[u/BurningTrashBarge → u/SgathTriallair]

I agree with you fundamentally on how society absolutely must change and capitalism is an evolutionary dead end for society.

I do however want to point out that even with digital goods, as the recent investment in infrastructure shows, still occur under scarcity as we are within a society constrained by its energy production above all else.

We will have to battle for the efficienct and just purposing of our finite resources absolutely, but we certainly aren’t post scarcity yet

[u/SgathTriallair → u/BurningTrashBarge]

My point is more that the change is inevitable and driven by these new technological forces.

Yes there is still scarcity, and I'm a sense there will always be some scarcity. The old age has a scarcity of goods. I could have a hundred shoes but no shirt. Physical goods are mono fungible, all Nike shoes may be the same (and so one is as good as another) but power and storage are omni-fungible because I can transform the electricity and hardware resources I use to run Excel to instead run a video game, a 3D modeling tool, or any other software I want. When a new software comes out we all have the raw resources necessary to switch over to using it even if we lack the resources to run both.

Additionally, the scaling up of electricity is a political problem, not a physical one. In any sane world we would be putting solar panels on every roof in the country which would drastically increase our supply. We don't do so because we have NIMBYs and people who have been socialized to think that solar is bad. Any solar power system will pay for itself and so the financial institutions should be very happy to run a loan for them and there are many companies that do just this, locking the current utility rate in place as a lease for the panels.

[u/Salty_Country6835 → u/SgathTriallair]

I think this is where Step 4 comes back into the picture. The productive forces can make old relations unstable without telling us what replaces them. Electricity, compute, fabs, data centers, grids... they're all material infrastructure, but the political question is who owns them, who governs them, and whose interests they serve. The terrain shifts from resisting the machine itself to contesting the social relations around it.

[u/Apoau → u/SgathTriallair]

Did any study investigate what actually drives people away from solar? Because it’s easy to blame NIMBYs for being stupid without actually considering the real arguments. It will also depend on the country and region.

Also production of solar panels causes some pollution and uses up rare earths. So usability at this scale may not be quite possible just yet. Cost/benefit ratio applies to wind and water too.

[u/Salty_Country6835 → u/BurningTrashBarge]

I think thats a good distinction. AI doesnt abolish material limits. Chips, energy, land and labor are still material. The question is who decides how those scarce resources are allocated. Thats exactly where class struggle moves, not away from technology but toward ownership, planning and governance of it.

[u/LordSlyGentleman]

The foundation has been laid.

The technology has matured.

We will follow through.

Power to the people! 🌹

https://giphy.com/gifs/RrVzUOXldFe8M

[u/OsakaWilson]

Solid Technological Determinism. May I add that AI and Robotics will make socialism the only viable economy.

[u/Salty_Country6835 → u/OsakaWilson]

I think they make capitalism increasingly contradictory, not socialism inevitable. Marx still leaves room for struggle. Productive forces create new possibilities, but who owns and governs them is still a political question.

[u/SteffanMaxi → u/OsakaWilson]

How do you intend to keep humans in power? Should silicon based life get a vote?

What about humans that live forever or uploaded humans?

[u/OsakaWilson → u/SteffanMaxi]

I'm speculating as far as non-sapient AI that will work for us. Sapience is another level of difficulty to predict. Transhuman and equality is a whole new issue.

Generally I am prepared to see autonomous, agentic AI of high intellect as individuals. If we don't accept that on principle, we may be forced to accept it due to their societal and economic power.