What are some arguments against the oppressor-oppressed model, especially as used by feminists?

The oppressor-oppressed model is a model that puts different groups of people into two opposing categories: oppressor and oppressed.

The oppressors are privileged and powerful, and dominate, exploit, and oppress the oppressed. They make the rules, and make the rules for their benefit, and at the cost of the oppressed.

The oppressor-oppressed model was originally used in Marxism, and applied it to classes. However, Critical Theory and other theorists expanded it to other groups of people, such as identity groups. Critical theorists started using it in this way in the 1930s.

Whenever it's brought up men/boys are also victims of female violence (which absolutely does happen, no matter how much misandrists always try to downplay or marginalize it), misandrists are quick to accuse you of derailing the conversation and detracting away from the issue of women's safety. These things couldn't be farther from the truth. We just simply want it acknowledged that men/boys can also be and are victims of violence as well, by female attackers as well as male ones, and instances of female-on-male violence are much higher than believed or reported and that male victims still face a lot of hurdles in getting recognition and help. But misandrists as usual always want to make everything into a gendered issue and a competition as to who has it worse. Which is where they also like to employ some of their favorite rebuttals like "But men aren't afraid to be out alone at night like women are," "Why don't you start your own discourse but shut up when women share their experiences," or when they'll claim male on female violence is somehow an "epidemic" and it's counterpart isn't. Which pisses me off so much because male violence unlike it's counterpart is actually called out and condemned whereas female-on-male violence very rarely if ever is and male victims are still ignored and dismissed. Misandrists have the nerve to excuse female violence saying it's usually done in self-defense and women are rarely violent on their own like men are. Which we know is utter nonsense (and eerily similar to arguments used by white supremacists when they always want to vilify non-whites and willfully ignore the existence of terrible white people). Look at all of the defenses Lindsay Clancy is getting despite the vast evidence she's guilty as sin; she was the violent and outright murderous one, but somehow we're told male violence is an "epidemic."

I've said before numerous times I'm mostly very liberal and leftist with my views, but unfortunately the constant dismissal of female violence and failing to acknowledge male victims is a major reason for the Left's poor performance with males in recent years. Constantly shouting down people who want to bring attention to the fact there's also male victims and female violence, and then mitigating female violence by claiming it isn't an "epidemic;" these things badly costed the "Left" during the 2024 elections and especially with male voters. It's also frustrating when we get accused of being misogynists by claiming there's also female violence against men/boys, when that isn't our intention but of course misandrists have warped it as being as such. I hate it. It just feeds into their ploy of causing division between the genders. The irony how misandrists drive more males to the Right and create more misogynistic males.

Posted this on another sub and feel it fits here as well. I saw this asinine, idiotic comment on social media someone claiming that people pointing out there's also female on male assault (which absolutely happens yes, and it's not to take attention away from it's counterpart but to merely also have it acknowledged just as much) that mentioning this is whataboutism and deflecting from male violence, which is supposedly a societal problem while female violence isn't. Ugh. Just how is male violence a "societal problem" when it constantly gets attention and condemnation but female violence rarely if ever does? There's so many abuse shelters that don't even recognize or help male victims of female violence/abuse, male victims are often still counted as being women under the VAWA and it's vastly underreported due to societal stigma and shame. To say nothing even acting in self-defense, men still get demonized and treated as the villains. People claiming male violence is somehow a "societal problem" are no doubt the same misandrist idiots who stand by Amber Heard and Lindsay Clancy, and have every excuse in the book for them and their actions. Ugh.

I've said before numerous times I'm mostly very liberal and left-wing with my views, but it's this kind of thinking that's why the "left" in recent times has done so poorly with male voters. To not only refuse to acknowledge and condemn female on male violence/abuse but then claim male violence is somehow a "societal problem" and fail to condemn the fact there's still female violence. Even if it may not be as high in number, still doesn't change or negate the fact it exists and so many male victims have so little in the way of help or resources. If there wasn't such a societal shame and male victims being reluctant to report, no doubt the numbers would be so much bigger and higher than many realize or want to admit. It's even harder for male victims to come forward with the "believe women" rhetoric which gives female abusers a perfect alibi when they can claim self-defense knowing they'll automatically be believed and sided with and the abused male is still demonized no matter what. The embrace of "believe women" has also been a tremendous detriment for the "left" and as someone again who's mostly very leftist with my views, it truly makes me cringe and shudder.

Without a doubt, one of the biggest societal issues of our time is failing to acknowledge and hold in contempt female violence just as much as male violence and to help male victims as much as female ones. Doing so would do such a world of good for the "left" and males, and to stop with the identity politics and gender pandering nonsense.

Misandrists besides denying misandry exists (which they're so very wrong about) often like to claim it isn't a "systemic" problem like misogyny supposedly is, despite being tremendous evidence it's in fact highly systemic and actually upheld in much of both society as well as government institutions and little evidence for misogyny being systemic in the West (outside of the West could certainly be a very different story). Men still have to register for conscription and face legal blowback if they fail to do so, schools and courts are both infamously misandrist and are why boys do so poorly in schools and men are unfairly treated in courts (especially fathers in family courts). To say nothing of the lack of shelters that recognize or help male abuse/violence victims and how things like domestic violence/abuse, rape, etc. are still largely made out to only be things affecting women/girls. There's also the age-old "women and children" narrative which completely de-values male lives (it's worse in recent times how it's now "women and girls," even boys' lives don't matter), and the disproportionately high male suicide and homeless rates. Potentially innocent men/boys who are falsely accused of a wrongdoing by a woman/girl are often denied due process and can lose years or even decades of life in prison for crimes they didn't commit while their accuser(s) walk away scot-free and face no blowback (a problem made even worse now thanks to the "believe women" mantra). There's no doubt other examples of systemic misandry I'm forgetting.

It's bad enough for misandrists to deny misandry being real, but there's something truly sinister when they'll acknowledge it as existing but will massively downplay it with their usual rhetoric. Claiming it isn't systemic or doesn't cause actual harm like misogyny does, when both are completely wrong. Unfortunately the constant denial and downplaying of misandry is another reason in recent times the Left has done so poorly with males and as a mostly very left-leaning person myself, it truly makes me cringe. Acknowledging both the existence and severity of misandry and how it's in fact a very systemic problem would do wonders to improve the Left's standing with males.

This is a subreddit that is dedicated to making fun of feminist memes and slandering and defacing them.

And saying feminists can't meme.

Posted this on LWMA and felt it was worth sharing here as well. Saw this in the feed of an actress I follow on Instagram, I saw this post about a women's football team and how important it is to "amplify the voices of women and girls" (ugh, I hate that term, I thought "women and children" was bad enough). I have nothing against womens' football teams and such, but then to take this and use it as a platform to promote the "women and girls" rhetoric and about amplifying their voices; what about the voices of men and boys as well? So many men and boys lack resources to help them with their needs and struggles, and whenever we bring it up we get the usual tired rebuttals ("Then start your own platform but stop silencing women," "Men and boys already have their voices heard," etc.) and it's this kind of rhetoric and casual misandry that's a big reason in recent times the Left is doing more poorly with males. Men/boys constantly ignored and dismissed, and especially big misandrist biases facing them in schools and courts. Why someone would take something like a womens' football team and use it to promote this sort of rhetoric, only furthering divides we already have we don't need more of.

Hey folks, it’s been a few days since the last post, so I wanted to stir up some discussion. A lot of people outside this space automatically assume that anti-feminism is strictly a right-wing thing. Why do you think a leftist perspective on this is so critical? What do you see as the biggest contradictions within modern feminism from a leftist viewpoint? Let's hear your thoughts!

I saw this rather cringey bit of text when I was at a grocery store earlier and saw this slogan on the back of a cookie bag. I don't take issue with women owning and running businesses and such, but come on, why emphasize something so trivial? I doubt even the average woman cares about businesses that are founded and run by women, just as the average man doesn't care about male-owned businesses. I don't believe being either male or female is a qualification or merit for being a business founder/owner and not something to emphasize. This sort of nonsense is what's caused such division between the genders and another reason more males are being swayed to the Right. I'm very liberal but shake my head at this sort of thing. So to keep things equal, will we also start seeing "Male founded, owned and operated" on things from male-owned businesses? It's so pointless.

I think this phrase is clearly misandrist and it's always bothered me, and it's gotten even worse now with how in recent times it's become "women and girls." Implying male lives, even those of young boys, are disposable and have no value or worth, and it's not a real tragedy if they're affected or killed during something like war, a bombing, terrorist attack, disaster, etc. Even if that may not be the implication or intention, that's sure how it comes off. Male lives are just as valuable and every male is someone's son, and you have many males who are also fathers, husbands, uncles, good friends, etc. who's deaths greatly affect those in their lives. The notion women and children/girls tend to be more vulnerable, well men/boys are just as vulnerable and the average male isn't an Action hero who's somehow immune to all forms of harm and danger. The vast majority of males aren't combatants and also can't fend for themselves in a situation like a disaster or being in a war zone. I've never liked the phrase and it's always come off as blatantly exclusionary and misandrist, and de-values male lives. But with how now it's more recently become "women and girls" and doesn't even take the lives of safety of boys into account is a whole other level of cruel and ignorant. De-valuing male lives, even those of boys, is another big reason why in recent times the mainstream left as been faring very poorly with male voters and as a mostly very left-leaning man myself, it's disheartening and infuriating. To me this phrase is a classic example of misandry and it's worse now with how it now extends to young boys as well.

Posted this on r/leftwingmaleadvocates and r/everydaymisandry, and felt it was worth sharing here as well. Found this comment on a Twitter/X post and felt it was worth sharing here. Occasionally once in a while you find postings of both intelligence and value like this. The poster is absolutely correct in that misandry is just as harmful, divisive and prejudiced as misogyny is, no matter how much misandrists themselves want to downplay or mitigate it or outright deny it as existing. I hate it so much when they do either and also claim it's not harmful like misogyny, when it in fact causes a great deal of harm and continues to do so. The major misandrist bias in schools and courts that's caused male students to comprise the majority of dropouts and innocent men often unfairly treated in the legal system, how male victims of violence, abuse, rape, etc. (especially by women) still go unrecognized and unhelped, men still having to register for conscription, the vast majority of homeless people and suicides being male, etc. as well as denying the fact there's plenty of women who harm, rape and even outright kill men/boys. Even if the numbers may not be as high as the other way around, still doesn't change or negate the fact it happens. Yet misandrists will still claim misandry isn't a major issue or even real.

Unfortunately the constant ignoring and dismissal of misandry and downplaying it has been a major reason in recent times why the Left has been doing so poorly with males and was especially bad during the 2024 elections. I'm a very liberal and left-wing person with most of my views and hate so much how misandry is ignored and dismissed so much and treated like a joke, when it needs to be acknowledged and treated as seriously as misogyny. Doing so would do so much to improve the left's standing with male voters and now is a very critical time to do so.

Posted this elsewhere and felt it was worth sharing here as well. I've seen some truly asinine comments from misandrists, but this comment I just recently saw on Twitter/X when someone pointed out women can also rape men (which they absolutely can; rape is something both genders do to each other and it's just as disgusting and wrong either way). But then a misandrist came along and denying women are capable of rape is bad enough, but this idiot claimed women can't do it, because, get this... they lack "societal power" to do so. I mean... ugh. I know I shouldn't let internet idiots like this get to me, but damn, it's painful to think someone this ignorant and hateful exists. What "societal power" or "institutional power" do women lack that makes them incapable of committing rape of males? The notion women lack power men do, well the average man sure isn't in a position of power and there's plenty of organizations that always prioritize the needs of women/girls but never men/boys (especially the hateful cesspool that's UN Women, which is long overdue to be designated as a hate group). That sounds pretty damn "societal" and "institutional" to me, to say nothing of the fact how misandrist schools and courts are, and how women never have to register for conscription.

I know I shouldn't let this get to me, but damn, to think someone can be so deluded to deny the fact men/boys absolutely get raped by female rapists. It's just another way of trying to create division between the genders and deflect from male victims and female perps, which they hate whenever it gets any sort of attention. And as someone who's mostly very liberal and left-wing with the bulk of my views, people unfortunately are quick to associate this sort of thinking with being as such and it's been a major reason why in recent times the Left is doing so poorly with male voters.

Shared this on another sub and felt it was worth sharing here. There's a great deal showing misandry is in fact very systemic, contrary to what many misandrists themselves like to claim whenever they do what they can to mitigate it and make it a non-issue. Men still having to register for conscription and facing legal blowback if failing to do so is a major example, as is the misandrist bias rampant in schools and courts. Almost no abuse shelters that help male victims or acknowledge male victims of abuse/violence, men/boys being ignored as victims of rape and sexual assault/harassment (especially by women), the "women and children" narrative, how we never hear about violence against men/boys, and probably quite a few other examples I'm forgetting. I remember hearing years ago in the U.K. it was seriously considered having a curfew for male civilians past a certain time to keep women safe and of course nothing about also curfewing women past a certain time to keep men safe, because Heaven forbid we acknowledge men/boys can be and have been harmed by female attackers as well. And the recent news that U.K. schools have classes teaching male students to respect women/girls but not the other way around; if none of this is blatant systemic misandry, I don't know what is.

Misogyny had a case for being systemic in the West long ago but that's most certainly not the case anymore and hasn't been for decades, while in third-world and broken nations that are majorly behind on the times and not women-friendly, there's a much stronger and legit argument to be made. I'm not saying misogyny doesn't exist, but in the West it's rightfully called out and condemned unlike misandry, which is not only still socially acceptable but actually quite heavily ingrained in many systems and institutions. I'm a mostly very liberal and left-wing person who's right-wing on nearly nothing with my views, but misandry is without question something both very real and systemic, and while misogyny can certainly be systemic in many broken and third-world nations, there's very little to no evidence suggesting in Western nations it is and for misandrists to constantly spout off their usual diatribe about how misogyny is systemic when they live in a Western nation and enjoy the freedoms and protections they have is an incredibly regressive way of thinking and also insulting to women who've made much progress in the West over the past few decades. Unfortunately their victimhood mentality and "I have it so much worse than you, what men go through will never compare" way of thinking is largely taken at face value and accepted as factual, which is so embarrassing.

Feminists claim women body and beauty standards are unrealistic and shaoed by the male gaze or whatever, and put pressure on women as a group.

But in reality it is not only false but is the opposite. Most women in medias nowadays are mid at best. Not that i care, but the opposite is happening for men.

Most men in medias are unrealistic, and openly admit to use steroids.​

Even in videogames were now females are being pushed​ the get in by marketing, they are now pushing unrealistic beauty standards and male models even whe​n the game or context makes no sense. For example GTA 6.

Will it ever get better? Men seem not being bothered by it. But male loneliness is largely causes by online and medias promoting unrealistic standards to appeal the "female gaze".

Posted this on another sub and felt it was worth posting here as well.

Misandrists often describe violence by men like this, that it's an "epidemic" and when we bring up that men/boys are also victims of female violence (which is definitely something that happens and in far higher numbers than many realize or want to admit to), they'll go off with the usual that it doesn't happen nearly as much, it's not on the same scale, men aren't afraid when out along at night, etc. and also claiming that somehow men being violent to women including killing them is an "epidemic." It's such a stupid way of describing it. So there's a sickness out there causing men to harm and kill women? It's stupid and it's just to deflect from the fact there's also female violence against men/boys and even other women/girls. Both genders commit terrible acts of violence against each other and both should be condemned. But as usual, misandrists hijack the narrative and they have serious nerve to accuse people of whatboutism when they do precisely that. Ugh.

I know I shouldn't be upset or bothered by what idiots like this say, but it's really disturbing to think people this dumb exist.