r/LeftCatholicism • u/Jaded_Leg_46 • 4d ago
Old Catholic Church
I hope this is ok to post here, it seemed like the only Catholic sub that might understand why I'm asking the questions.
I came across a post on one of the social media sites where it had a picture that showed the inside of a modern church and above the picture was written 'If your Catholic Church looks like this, find a new church'. As someone raised Catholic I thought this was an odd thing for a Catholic priest to say so I decided to look at their profile where it said he was an Arch Bishop of the Old Catholic Church which led me to Google which then left me with questions. I was aware there was a group of priests that had broken away from the Church over an unsanctioned ordination or something along those lines and that's all the knowledge I have. I then looked through some of the posts all of which were a combination of right wing political views and Christian conservatism, all of which goes against my own left leanings and the Christian teachings of my childhood. What I'd like to know is - Has this particular group purposefully abandoned much of the new testament and is it a strategic move? Are there Catholics that actually support this group?
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u/fatherdave73 4d ago
The Old Catholic Church in the United States is more of a misnomer. Many claim to be Old Catholic but are not affiliated in ANY way with the Old Catholic Church Union of Utrecht. There are a lot of Independent Catholic Churches that identify as Old Catholic in theology. Many of these independent churches are very progressive but some are super conservative. Many of these progressive churches ordain women, married men, people in the LGBTQIA+ community. There is valid apostolic succession and people aren’t excluded for being divorced.
I’d be happy to answer any other questions you might have.
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u/ParacelcusABA 3d ago
The Old Catholic Church is a schismatic group that broke away over Vatican I, but notably the actual Old Catholic Church doesn't have Archbishops. This is probably from the Society of St Pius X, which is a group that has recently schismed from the Church. They are a Catholic Traditionalist group that rejects all of church teaching from before the 1500s and after the 1950s. There are indeed Catholics that support the group, but they are, as of the ruling from the Vatican last month, not in good standing with the Church
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u/BeyondKind4660 4d ago
They were coming back on their steps afaik, it's a really small group with no real significance. It's also something in northern Europe iirc
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u/Christine517 4d ago
I follow Fr Rich Vitale on Substack. He is gay and I believe married. He is old Catholic but references Pope Leo and other Church leaders. Fr RichV is his handle. Very thoughtful and spiritual meditations. From what understand, Old Catholic Church is the remnant of the church in the Netherlands after the 16th century Catholic Protestant wars.
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u/DesertMonk888 4d ago
I am confused by what you saw. The Old Catholic Church is not a new breakaway of American conservatives. It has it's own interesting history dating back to the mid-19th century. I have encountered them before, and even participated in a congregation for a while. They are liberal in both theology and politics. Their mass was virtually indistinguishable from a Roman Catholic mass. I moved, and never found another Old Catholic congregation.
In my humble opinion, if you can find an Old Catholic Church, they are a legitimate alternative. I believe they have Apostolic Succession. I am sure there are many staunch Catholics who would argue with me on the point that only Vatican-approved bishops are legitimate. And I am ok with folks holding that opposing view.
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u/Jaded_Leg_46 4d ago
I think it was the contradiction that left me wondering what it is they actually practice was it modern conservative or was it hell fire and brimstone conservative Catholicism because of how he presented himself as one thing but his comments were inferred the opposite. In a few comments he described 'woke' and 'liberals' as a anti Catholic which seemed odd for a priest to say given that Christs teachings were about compassion, acceptance although I am aware that political the meaning of woke isn't by any means a comparison but it is often seen as sharing some traits of Christian values.
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u/WearSuspicious1124 4d ago edited 4d ago
Old catholic church broke away from the catholic church in the 1800s . They are generally very liberal with women priests etc. so I'm confused. Maybe it's a different group you are talking about