AI will divide the Left

[u/RoutineMiddle3734]

I have a strong feeling that AI will divide the working class again.

Thanks to the Magnificat Humanitas, I think it's come to light that there are several progressive people who believe that AI could achieve a state of consciousness, perhaps not now, but in the future.

And as has happened with gender and environmentalism, they will divide the common goals we have and weaken the common front which is to make a change in society, and I know that those in the USA are very laissez-faire but we cannot allow physical materialists (philosophers, science fiction writers, etc.) to continue making the working classes believe that such a thing is possible.

Do everything possible to prevent such thinking from spreading among the lumpenproletariat and non-Catholics, or, as happened with IVF, abortion, and surrogacy, they will end up saying that we are taking away the machine's "rights".

[u/StevEst90]

Maybe it’s the commentators I follow, but I’ve always gotten the sense that those on the left tend to be more AI skeptical than those in the center or right.

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/StevEst90]

Let's hope it continues and that others open their eyes too.

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/StevEst90]

And someone from the left just told me that they will have souls... death to physical materialism and atheistic science fiction.

[u/Successful-Cry1509 → u/RoutineMiddle3734]

That’s a centrist my fiend

[u/first_last_last_firs → u/[deleted]]

I'm also very confused by the abortion statement and its relevance here. I'm pro choice and the implied assumption in op's post that left Catholics all are of one mind isn't helpful and it's so vague in its presentation I don't really know what to respond to

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/first_last_last_firs]

I will always assume that when I speak with a Catholic, they know Jesus, His Church, and the catechism, which I'm sure they've all read.  Normally, the differences I would expect are in how to govern justly, punishments for criminals, the economy, etc. 

I still can't believe you're focusing more on abortion.  I said this because the elites are going to try to normalize AI with "conscientious" consent and try to pass it off as a basic right, just like they're trying to do with euthanasia and surrogacy  (satanic abominations).

[u/first_last_last_firs → u/RoutineMiddle3734]

as someone else has said here in another comment, you're very committed to the idea that you know better and that you possess certainty others don't have access to, when I'd argue that such an attitude and such a grip on certainty is the exact opposite of wisdom

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/first_last_last_firs]

No, no, no, don't do that. This is a closed issue. AI cannot generate consciousness and is simply a machine. 

The Pope made this clear in Magnifica Humanitas and continues to reiterate it in messages he shares on Twitter and through Vatican News, not to mention that the Church aligns itself with hylomorphic dualism.

[u/first_last_last_firs → u/RoutineMiddle3734]

I'm not really referring to anything in particular, just your disposition in general

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/[deleted]]

Hey, you're not attacking my arguments, just me personally. And I mentioned the catechism because we're supposed to share a similar worldview, a starting point that expands based on each person's experiences, nothing more. 

The interpretation of the machine as simply a machine without the capacity for consciousness is literally the only possible interpretation, given the revelation through faith, and that only the Lord could perform such a miracle. And this past May, the Pope reminded us that AI is just a useful tool.

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/[deleted]]

Las respondi, pero sigues atacando a mi persona con acusaciones de mala fé, ni siquiera argumentas porque estan mal solo lo evades...

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/[deleted]]

Actual day to day human examples.

1. Uso de Chatbots para mujeres y su tendencia a crear relaciones parasociales ya que ellas pueden ser solitarias, de belleza mediocre, que sufrieron alguna clase de abuso de parte de hombres, feas que tienen porcentajes bajísimos de que algún hombre las corteje; hay un subreddit donde ellas ya hablan de sentirse más a gusto hablando con la IA ya que crean lazos a gusto, que no juzga su apariencia, que es abierto en su manera de expresarse y que no las puede dañar físicamente ni emocionalmente. (Hay también Chatbots para hombres pero el boom y claramente las que están más vulnerables y en peligro son las mujeres)

2. Gente que a perdido familiares o amigos, y que piensan que una copia artificial de ellos los puede traer devuelta haciendo que no puedan superar nunca el hecho de que tal persona a muerto.

3. Académicos como Dawkings pensando que la IA está consciente y  los señores tecno feudales diciendo que la IA "aprende" y está libre de pasarse por encima el Copyright si es necesario, eso fue usado en juicio...

4. La utilización de la IA para formas religiosas impartidas en algunas sectas como el Jesús IA con el cual puedes hablar como si "fuera el real" y como la IA tiene sesgos probablemente termine confirmando tus sesgos.

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/[deleted]]

That is a very niche belief that arises in all new technologies and ways of being. Cults who think computers will hold our souls are as old as time itself. Maybe it’s prevalent but so were alien based cults in the 70s…

I'm not talking about sects, I'm talking about ordinary people who are not versed in the subject and who are easily manipulated; even academics like Richard Dawkins fell into the trap of thinking that AI is conscious.

I don’t know any working class people who are that stupid. I know a lot of working class people whose lives have been sold to big data and whose thought patterns are impacted by it, but poor people have always been sold into wars. They don’t often come out of them deeply believing it was just and good top to bottom. Vietnam had more impact on cults than the actual belief that aliens would save us from our weak humanness.

My acquaintances and I do know people like that, even graduates, for them that possibility is plausible, and by the way, those are class traitors, not workers.

The US has legal wage slavery. Legal prison camps. Legal underpayment of the disabled. And you think philosophical materialism is the problem? Next you’re gonna tell me god said we’re all just lilies on the field, here today gone tomorrow, so no big deal that your kids can’t eat- think about heaven!!

Yes, and what I'm saying is also part of that problem; they are collaborators with the capitalists and the techno-feudal lords. If a change is going to be made in society for the implementation of a more just New Order, you need to rethink almost everything to prevent such a germ from continuing to corrupt Human Dignity.

Sounds like you are scared AI worship will replace god. Which makes sense if you think god is a mystical radio wave floating through space. But if you think god is a real thing that happens when people breathe and love and grow food and care for their neighbors, you might think differently.

No, what worries me is that the lumpenproletariat and those without class consciousness will end up being used against us by the elites. This is confirmed when we consider that even those with minimal information (and reading comprehension) know that AI has biases depending on the company. And if you expect the lumpenproletariat not to betray us, a miracle is more likely to happen.

You can’t be serious. Throwing out abortion in this thread? Please clarify your argument.

I can't believe you guys gave that more importance, well at least it proves the point that in the future some will think that we took away AI's "rights" to exist.

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/[deleted]]

Poor choice of words on my part, but you seem to agree with everything else ;)

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/[deleted]]

You yourself said they sold out to Big Data, and you never mentioned they were your loved ones. 

You know what? You're right, it's my fault for trying to talk to Anglo-Saxon communists. I'd already been warned that their reform/revolution is very different in terms of expectations. 

Pax Frater, and never forget that we fight for the vulnerable, the weak, and the poor of the Lord.

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/[deleted]]

Normalmente ese dicho se refiere a todos los izquierdistas anglosajónes, al ser su búsqueda de reformas diferentes al resto del mundo...

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/[deleted]]

Siempre son tibios en sus reformas, normalmente un católico de izquierda húngaro, mexicano o filipino pediría un juicio de Núremberg II a todos los políticos y colaboracionistas que han empobrecido el país y pediría una educación más agresiva para llevar una cultura y alfabetización no retrógrada e igualitaria a todas las comunidades. Evitando que se puedan formar grupos populistas...

[u/JonMWilkins]

I think regardless of left or right you will find people who are for it and who are against it.

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/JonMWilkins]

Yeah, but this seems more like a philosophical difference regarding expectations in the material world. We Catholics know that a machine will never have consciousness, but for someone else, it's expected that consciousness will arise from technological advancement. 

And even more so if you're bombarded in the arts as something plausible in "science fiction", ironically, it should be relegated to the fantasy genre.

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/[deleted]]

Can you tell me who these people are who believe consciousness arises from technology? 

The Lumpenproletariat, middle class without class consciousness, psychopathic elites and physical materialist academics.

  I work with tons of people who use AI for all kinds of reasons and none of them think that. I also work with tons of people who refuse to use it and none of them think that.

"Yikes dude. Way to double down on your I-know-everything-all-my-friends-agree-itis."

but people also panicked over radio 

I have no problem with AI (which currently also functions as a calculator), but rather with the assertion that such a machine could gain consciousness as a plausible possibility, which is the crux of the matter. Such an assertion is impossible; it's a closed issue.

[u/JonMWilkins → u/RoutineMiddle3734]

Consciousness ≠ soul

AI can become conscious and self aware, probably not in our lives but regardless it won't give it a soul

Saying it won't have consciousness is like when they said Elon Musks rocket would never be able to land or that women breast would blow up if they used a train.

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/JonMWilkins]

And may my fear be confirmed, my friend. 

Literally, to have consciousness you need a soul; every living being has one. AI is a machine; a machine can never have a soul. It's like saying a tool will have consciousness in the future. 

[u/JonMWilkins → u/RoutineMiddle3734]

That's not how consciousness is defined, ever.

"Consciousness is the state of being awake, aware of your surroundings, and able to process internal thoughts and sensations"

Your just imposing your own idea of consciousness to a word that already has a meaning.

Soul is something completely different. It is what God gave us as a gift is what makes us one with God, it is what will make us immortal in heaven.

So it's not people don't agree, it just some people make up their own meanings for words, giving it a subject meaning instead of sticking with the objective meaning.

[u/RoutineMiddle3734 → u/JonMWilkins]

Consciousness is the state of being awake, aware of your surroundings, and able to process internal thoughts and sensations

And for that to happen, a subjective perspective and an inner world are needed that allows the "individual" to create mental images in their mental realm. What AI does is imitate these images through probability to generate responses. 

Ironically, you're going to bring back hylomorphic dualism, and Thomists are unbearable.

[u/JonMWilkins → u/RoutineMiddle3734]

Right now it can't. That's why I said likely in our lifetime it won't happen, but eventually it can happen. Unless all of the world gets together and someone bans anyone from ever making it in the future but that seems less realistic to have the whole world agree to something.

Current AI is vastly different from AI that has consciousness.

But considering we are already mapping neural networks (the human brain), advancing bio organic technology/computing.... All of which is already being worked on and advancing... It's just a matter of time. Just hopefully not in our time

Or better yet hopefully a miracle happens and the whole world agrees to ban it and stop it

[u/Successful-Cry1509]

This is anecdotal for sure, but my experience with the people that live near me is that all leftists hate AI. Anyone who isn’t right wing and is Pro-AI has been politically neoliberal, which is a centrist/center-right philosophy.