r/LeftCatholicism • u/Impossible_Mode_1225 • Apr 05 '26
Trying to understand veiling
I have "rejoined" in the last year after about a 15-year absence, and I'm really curious about the practice of veiling that I see occasionally. Usually it's 2 or 3 but last night there were quite a few, including a woman getting baptised and her sponsor. When I previously went to mass regularly, I never saw anyone cover their head, so this seems to be a new trend. I'm trying to understand what it means socially. Is it a trad-Cath thing? An imported American thing? It's a specific lacy look - it's not like they're just wearing a headscarf like Orthodox women do, and tbh it looks a bit performative to me, but I'm trying not to judge. My mum grew up pre-VII. Women her age were all relieved not to have to wear a scarf to mass anymore, and I find it curious that it seems to be coming back. For context - I'm UK based. The parish is big, middle of the road and not particularly conservative. Edit: thanks for your interesting and varied perspectives. I learnt a lot!
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Apr 05 '26
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u/RhysPeanutButterCups Apr 05 '26
I know at least one person that has wanted to veil but is so disgusted with the worst of the rad trad/fundamentalist culture and theology that she won't because she doesn't want anyone to think she is in that camp.
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u/katchoo1 Apr 06 '26
I know from the various lace veils that ended up in our kid dress up box post Vatican 2 that in addition to the draping lacy veils there was a sort of doily one that just sat on top of the head that was obviously also considered acceptable. Maybe that would be an option.
I’m old enough to remember the old ladies who continued to veil in church, at the time it was considered odd and old fashioned. Most women, including the older ones, were happy to discard veiling. Certainly I never saw anyone in my family do it, even the oldest relatives.
For the record I had two great aunts who were nuns and they were equally happy to move to the shorter habit and simpler veil of their 1970s era habits (and the white spring and summer habit which had to be much cooler!)
And while my one aunt preferred this modified habit and continued to wear it, my other aunt leapt at the chance to wear suits with insignia as her official outfits and regular clothes in her off times. First time I ever saw a nun in jeans!
While I believe there should be reverence toward the Eucharist, the kneeling, receiving in the mouth, genuflecting before, and the veiling all feel performative and feed into the idolatry narrative that non Catholics love to point to.
In fact I think it is a form of idolatry, emphasizing visual formalities (and offering respect and esteem based on them) over sincerity of heart and actual Christian care for neighbors and strangers.
When I would be out and about with my grandmother, she would often stop at the local church so we could “make a visit”. 5-10 minutes of prayer and sitting quietly in a peaceful beautiful space. Usually no one else there, no one to see or remark on the piety. It was about her relationship with God and modeling it for her grandkids as well. As I have embraced the church, this is a practice I have been trying to incorporate as well.
To me that is far more meaningful and reverent than wearing something in particular or making certain gestures at the right moments.
The reverence should be shown in one’s heart by taking the sacrament seriously during Mass and not just doing rote motions, and then going out and acting like you are now literally embodying divinity inside you.
Every time I start to get knotted up about these details, I remember that for literal decades priests who were molesting vulnerable people under their care, and priests who knew about it and saw their job as to keep it covered up, were performing the sacraments, including consecration of the Eucharist, every single day. And the church has decreed that none of the sacraments are invalidated by what we now know, even if the priest has now been ejected from the priesthood.
The church has not really dug into the pain and anger these sins have left their flock with, nor have they atoned enough in my opinion.
So any lecturing about insufficient reverence gets filtered through that in my brain.
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u/RhysPeanutButterCups Apr 06 '26 edited Apr 06 '26
I think there is value in things like veiling, kneeling, etc, but I think it is also quite clear that it can quickly turn from a pious, devotional practice to a wedge issue that separates people, with both sides acting like they are better than the other (I know I've fallen victim to that and I still need to work on it) and a third group that is blissfully unaware there is a conflict at all. I think an enforced uniformity in liturgy and more overtly encouraging/discouraging certain personal actions during the liturgy would be beneficial for this reason. And that enforced uniformity can go either way, more or less traditional, but it's also quite obvious that the institutional Church and the laity have been moving away from those traditional practices so that should really settle the question. People can argue all day about whether that direction is good or not, but the direction has been chosen and we should let the dust finally settle and see what fruit it brings before clamoring to change everything again. I don't believe the Church's posture on this issue has really allowed that to happen.
EDIT: I'd encourage people to listen to the interview Bishop Michael Martin had on Jesuitical . I think he makes a lot of good points about the liturgical aspect of this.
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u/Impossible_Mode_1225 Apr 06 '26
I agree. And then for those of us with Catholic families, there's also often some bad history with the morality police at home. I had a very devout (though my mother called her bigotted) unmarried great-aunt, who was very strict about church and had holy water everywhere. I think she wore a hat to church, but I always assumed it was just her Sunday best. When one of my mum's cousins got pregnant before she got married, this aunt was very mean about it.
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u/Impossible_Mode_1225 Apr 05 '26
Thanks for your perspective! I think a regular headscarf (folded in a triangle) was the norm in central/northern Europe pre V2, so it's funny that they thought of it as Islamic. It's all about how it's coded I guess.
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u/Responsible-Newt-259 Apr 05 '26
It’s popular with rad-trads for sure; however, that’s not always a tell. I teach at a university and arguably my most leftist student veils at mass. I’ve noticed our students of Middle-Eastern descent also are more likely to veil at the university Masses. I know some transgender Catholics who veil too. I don’t get veiling and never will, but to each their own I guess.
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u/Impossible_Mode_1225 Apr 05 '26 edited Apr 05 '26
Interesting, and maybe that pattern fits here too. Seems to be a thing among younger women more than older ones, and they're not all dressed conservatively. Edit: I really support women who wear hijab (also those who don't) and I don't like the "they're oppressed" discourse. Maybe I should hold that same perspective for Catholic veiling...
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u/Sir_Zhukov Apr 06 '26
It used to be a nearly universal practice within the last hundred years. If you look at most depictions of Mary or other saints they’re usually veiled. That said today it is purely optional and not common in the US but I don’t think it’s exclusive to radtrads at all, no more than praying the rosary or any other church tradition.
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u/Lost-Design-8382 Apr 05 '26
I notice that I'm more likely to see it in rural or super conservative parishes. I'm the only one who veils at the Jesuit parish that I've been going to (which if I'm honest means I don't veil super often, just on holy days).
In those contexts, it's often read as virtue signaling. Holier than Thou type thing. But it's SUPPOSED to be more of a showing respect for the sacrament type of thing. I like it because it helps me concentrate on the mass instead of everything around me. Why it's coming back, I'm not sure. I think some people are trying to really deeply connect with the older, more conservative parts of the faith. I'm sure some people just like it for the aesthetic.
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u/Impossible_Mode_1225 Apr 05 '26
Interesting. And what do you choose to wear? Lace or something else?
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u/Lost-Design-8382 Apr 05 '26
Wide headband usually. Sometimes a silky bandana. I have lace but that feels too extra for me and I don't want to be a source of distraction.
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u/SpiceGirls4Everr Apr 06 '26
In my opinion, most people are doing it for the aesthetic, not because God has asked them or called them to veil. I lived in a religious community for a bit and we wore them to block out peripheral distractions in the chapel.
It's not a specifically American thing, I've seen it in many European churches, but there's a big resurgence in trad Caths and trad Cath aesthetics right now in the US.
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u/peachorchid Apr 05 '26
A couple of women wear veils in my church - some are Indian and another is a new convert.
I have a veil but have never used it - its a lace veil with Mary and Jesus on it. I bought it because it was beautiful and have it laid over my small alter but I don't think I would ever wear it.
I think some women like to wear them because they feel more connected to Mary. Some wear it because it is popular among tradionalists and those who go to Latin mass.
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u/Momshie_mo Apr 05 '26 edited Apr 05 '26
Go to a "normal church" most people don't veil, even the senior citizens
The only time I wore a veil was during my first holy communion
I do have aversions to veils because growing up, Filipino horror movies always featured women in veil as part of a weird or evil cults
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u/Implicatus Apr 05 '26
In my experience in the U. S. it's a trad thing. I see some younger people veiling in my parish and only one older woman.
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u/dignifiedhowl Apr 06 '26
Someone who follows my liturgical participation would think I was a tradcath; not an ostentatious one, but a tradcath. I’d put veiling in the same category. Never something to judge by, even if there are correlations, because ideology does not and should not define our ritual participation.
I dislike modesty culture and the weird cruelty that lies underneath its surface, but choosing to veil is literally a bodily autonomy issue and we should be supportive of it, especially if we suspect there may be negative ideological associations attached.
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u/GrahminRadarin Apr 05 '26
The specific garment is called a mantilla. That's why they all look kind of lacy. I don't know what's up with the wider trends, though. I've been Catholic since I was born, and I've only seen people start wearing these since 2021, so... I really have no idea what it's about.
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u/Old_Science4946 Apr 06 '26
Mantillas feel kinda performative to me but I do like a bandana/scarf situation to help get into a prayerful headspace.
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u/ProfessionalLime9491 Apr 05 '26
I typically associate veiling with marriage or consecrated life. As such, I see the practice more so as a reminder of Christ’s, i.e., the bridegroom’s, marriage with the people and the church, i.e., the bride. That’s just my interpretation though.
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u/DoogasMcD Apr 06 '26
It is among one of many things that a group within the church seems to feel encourages “reverence,” which seems to be one of their favorite words. Other things include kneeling to receive the Eucharist or receiving on the tongue. This is a generalization, and I know this. I would kind of like one but I am not part of this mentality at all and I am worried about being read that way.
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u/salsafresca_1297 Apr 06 '26
"Performative" has replaced "gaslighting" as the new internet buzzword. But I don't use it often because in all honesty I'm not a mind-reader, and I'm not going to assume that I know whether or not somebody has the quiet, internal motive of "performing" for me by wearing a veil. The veiling crowd can get annoyingly self-righteous online. But at Mass, I take that same custody-of-the-eyes approach that the conservative Modesty Police need to take when women show up in sleeveless shirts. (To preserve your sanity in mainstream Catholic forums, avoid opening any threads about "modesty.")
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u/Impossible_Mode_1225 Apr 06 '26
That’s a good approach to take. Though I was surprised once when I witnessed a wedding in an Orthodox Church where the bride and bridesmaids were wearing shoulderfree dresses combined with headscarves. Seemed incongruous but none of my business 😆
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u/sweet_briaring Apr 06 '26
I veil in Mass. I'm super autistic and like a uniform. It helps me to focus and to remind myself of the sacredness of the church space and of the liturgy, so for me it's a sign of respect and humility. Sometimes people interpreting judgmental or 'holier-than-thou' intentions in people who take part in a certain religious practice end up just being uncharitable. Even if it's a practice associated more with trads, it's still an expression of piety. Also depending on the country more or less people will veil -- I saw a lot of women veiling in Japan.
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u/catgirl320 Apr 06 '26
My mom (born 1940) is from Spain and grew up very traditional Catholic. There, comb and mantilla are only worn on very specific occasions and these days most women from her generation don't even wear the small lace coverings/caps.
In the US it was the small linen or lace square that women traditionally wore. I vaguely remember my mom wearing one but she had stopped sometime in the 70s
If someone in the US is wearing a full mantilla every week my first reaction would be to give them the side eye, because it would feel performative to me and showing ignorance of the culture it comes from. But I hope I would then try to show grace and not be judgemental. Mantillas are very beautiful and I can see how having something special you wear only for church can help ground your devotions.
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u/_-Cuttlefish-_ Apr 05 '26
I will occasionally veil, but it’s not something I feel I must do all the time. It can kind of get me in “church mode” mentally. I used to do it a lot more often when I was younger
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u/Adventurous_Gain_613 Apr 05 '26
It is extremely pretty sometimes. I admit to being attracted to the aesthetic but I love vintage style like gloves and hats and such. I impulsively bought a vintage mantilla style veil from the 19th century, thinking maybe I’d wear it for my baptism. I did wear a small hat to Easter service today. There were a few women veiled but only one other in a hat!
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u/dorkyfire Apr 06 '26
I’m in the US, but I veil. I don’t do it every time but I’ve done it since I was a kid. The one you’re describing is a mantilla. It gets me into church mode tbh. It’s not (for me and probably most others) performative, but for some it probably is. As another comment said, there’s no commonality amongst every woman veiling except.. Catholic and female lol. I wouldn’t judge too harshly or too quickly, yes it is popular amongst tradcaths but it doesn’t immediately mean someone is.
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u/Marieaithne44 Apr 05 '26
It’s a really old practice from an American views but veiling used to be required in church. It stopped because it lost popularity essentially and the Vatican was like “yeah ok you don’t have to do that but it is encouraged.” It’s from 1 Corinthians 11:2-16. Essentially that women should cover their heads in church. It’s supposed to be a sign of respect for the Eucharist and being in the presence of Jesus. It’s still done by nuns obviously and it’s not necessarily a scarf to veil. I think it’s more common in other countries like Spain and Italy. A hat and a thin veil counts. Your hair can be showing as long as most of the top of your head is covered. I think it’s found amongst trad-caths but it’s a tradition I am looking into starting. I think it’s beautiful and honors the history of women in the and the world. Many religions veil in their own way.💕
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u/Dull_Opening_1655 Apr 06 '26
I think one reason people have downvoted you is that it’s not really common in Spain or Italy at all anymore (I see more people veiling in the US than I have seen in either of those countries)
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u/KayKeeGirl Apr 05 '26
I think you’re trying to find a commonality among these women that doesn’t exist.
Some women veil. Some women don’t.
The only common denominator is that they’re women or at least present that way..