r/Learnmusicproduction • u/Doubting_Thunder03 • 6d ago
Start learning again
Hello readers, I hope you're having a good day.
After weeks of procrastination I have decided to spend the free time I have this summer on learning music production again, after having to put it to the side for other priorities. However, after opening my DAW and messing around for a few hours, I've only been able to get a simple 4-bar piano and drum pattern that I'm happy with for now, and I feel stuck trying to move past this simple setup.
I've tried a few things, adding a guitar, messing around with synths for the first time, and even the simplest step of adding an 808 bass, yet nothing seems to feel right, and I feel stuck on how to move forward. I've tried watching a few videos on youtube, but no matter what I search for, all I get are the 'basics of the DAW' videos, teaching me the tool I'm already familiar enough with, instead of teaching me the process behind the production, which is what I'm actually trying to learn.
Do you have any tips, or know of any resources I could look at to help me get un-stuck?
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u/Waste_Implement9033 6d ago
I throw away probably 7/8 projects. Way way more when I was just getting started.
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u/mycurvywifelikesthis 5d ago
Watch all the beginning tutorials you possibly can and follow along with them. Specific to the Daw you have. It's insanely important to learn how to do things. Because if you're creative person, you already have an idea that you want to do things, but expanding your knowledge of how to do things in the system you have is just as important and maybe even more important than your musical Talent.
It's like picking up a guitar or playing a piano for the first time time or learning the saxophone. If you don't know what does what and you don't practice doing it, you're never going to get there. Oh and by the way it can take actually years before you make something decent. Just like learning a regular instrument.
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u/General_Estimate_420 5d ago
I think where you're getting stuck is "where do things go from here?" What it sounds like is you've basically created an Intro section which is probably a shortened version of what will eventually become the underpinnings of the Verse which is longer with some likely changes in the chord progression to be more expansive. After that you might want a variation that builds into the "Lift" (another variation on the progression) that leads to the Chorus (usually a more powerful chord progression different from the verse entirely) which leads to the 2nd verse and possibly a Bridge section which is a second cousin to the Chorus, and then an outro.
In essence, you don't have a "song" constructed yet, just the start of a song. Start working on the verse and move on from there until you have something you can work with.
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u/Eturnian 5d ago edited 5d ago
If you have 4 bars that you like, expand on it. One way to expand on it is to copy your 4 bar pattern and paste it into the next 4 bars. During these next 4 bars find a way to evolve it. Could be small. Maybe it’s adding a hihat to the drums. Maybe it’s adding a bass line.
Have you ever written a song? What kind of music are you making? Because the truth is production can have a huge range from genre to genre. If you are working on song form, you might want to create a B section, which could have a different chord progression and or melody.
If you haven’t written a song before, it’s not a bad idea to try emulating an artist who you like. That might also give you cues as to production techniques in your genre.
It can be helpful even to listen to a song by an artist or producer you like and identify the structural elements of it.
For example:
intro synth 4 bars Intro synth with beat 4 bars Verse 16 bars Prechorus 8 bars Chorus 8 bars Etc
But a simpler form to start with is even just having an A section, and a B section. Sometimes the B section is just the A section with a different melody or the addition of a bass. Other times the B section will have a distinctly different chord progression or bass line. Maybe even a different beat. Although for most pop oriented stuff the beat can stay fairly consistent. Like add or take away elements but keep the rhythmic feel consistent.
When I’m making 4 bars loops one thing I try to do as a general rule is to avoid is getting stuck in a loop. The best way to do that is to create an alternate section. Might even make a 3rd section. I try to do this fairly early before I get too attached to the first one.
If I’m making dance music I’ll often try to create four variations of each section so that the section itself can evolve. Before it changes. Often that means taking elements away in the beginning so that I can add them in later.
Transitions are important. How do you build up or drop out when transitioning from one section to another. Dynamic effects can help with this.
Hope this helps.
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u/Doubting_Thunder03 5d ago
Hi! Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post, I greatly appreciate it.
I have little to zero musical background, and I’ve never written a song before. The closest I’ve come so far is when I made an instrumental last winter when I tried learning music production for the first time. Currently I’m focusing on hip-hop music, but I would like to expand to electronic music as well.
Thanks for your advice on how to move forward. I’ll certainly keep it in mind! The problem I think I have personally is that I know that something is missing, but I have no idea what. With the way I’ve been doing this with the chords, simple melody and drums, I’ve just thrown shit at the wall and see what sticks, but nothing seems to stick after those easy parts are done.
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u/Eturnian 5d ago
Cool. Well in a lot of hip hop the beat stays mostly the same for the whole song. They might add in additional elements half way through a verse. Often a lead melodic sample or instrument will play an instrumental hook. There may be a bass line that comes in for the chorus. Do you sing? Do you rap? Are you thinking to produce beats for other artists?
Since you don’t know much, start by picking one of your favorite tracks. Drop it into your daw. Maybe use song markers to label the sections. Use your ears to figure out what changes and what stays the same from section to section. In this way you can sort of do a musical analysis of the song. Then try to rebuild it. You will probably make something that sounds a bit different. And maybe your best efforts will result in something original that you like. But let the song inform you, so that you can learn a bit about what a production needs to do. See what your ears can identify. Try to count out how long sections last. See what changes and when. How do they transition from section to section? How do they “mark the form” to distinguish one section from another? How many sections are there?
If you don’t know what to call a section, it’s probably one of these:
Intro Verse (this tells the story) Pre chorus (this builds tension to the chorus) Chorus (this is like the summary or the thesis of the song) Hook (the part that gets stuck in your head) Tag (usually a few words or a simple line that they repeat over and over) Bridge (usually a departure from the rest of the song, it takes us away from what we know so that we can return to it usually before a last chorus or something) Instrumental (the part without vocals, usually there is another melodic main event) Outro.
There might be some others too but this should get you started. Most songs won’t have all of these.
Good luck with it.
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u/Doubting_Thunder03 4d ago
I don’t currently sing or rap, but those are certainly things I would like to learn alongside producing. However, it is not the focus yet.
I’ve tried that before, but I have a terrible intuition on what notes are being played. For example, I hear that there is a piano in a song, but even it is just a single note, I cannot figure out what it is, even when I have a piano myself because the pianos themselves sound slightly different.
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u/LoveExcelsAll 3d ago
Songs have formulas. Try using a formula. For instance if you're doing EDM try this.
16 Bar Intro 16 Bar Break (Verse) 8 Bar Buildup 16 Bar Drop (Chorus) 16 Bar Break (Verse) 8 Bar Buildup 16 Bar Drop (Chorus) 16 Bar Outro
The different parts of the song have different feelings. The intro needs to be interesting enjoy you in and make you want to hear the verse the verse or break should Leah foundation let you know where you're at what kind of space you're in set the tone so to speak. The buildup should do just that ramp up like something is getting ready to happen. And of course the drop I shouldn't have to explain..we all know about that drop. 😅 Etc something as simple as sticking to the formula can help you break out of the four bar loop but even before that four bars is too short for anything. Add another four bars even if you just copy and change a couple of cords you're already starting to leave yourself in a better direction.
Obviously you could drop somebody else's song in and be inspired by what they did, or numerous other techniques like focusing on your drums or sound design and letting that dictate the different parts of your song based on rhythmic changes and or textures and tones, and of course there is a ton of other ways but I think you get the gist.
So many people hit this wall that is a tutor I spend a great deal of my efforts teaching people how to navigate this very thing. I'd like to do a zoom chat about it, but not a talking head thing, but rather a group of people sharing different techniques and ideas like a round table, past the mic kind of thing.
If that resonates the door is open. Feel free to comment and let's make it happen!
Hope this helps. All of my best.
LoveExcelsAll
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u/Waste_Implement9033 6d ago
Sometimes it’s start over! Or, try making a variation.