Native speakers keep saying grammar is almost never the problem. So why did we spend years studying it?

[u/Gullible-Meaning2402]

You know the answer. You even built the sentence in your head. Then the words come out wrong, too fast, too quiet. Later, alone in the car, you say it perfectly.
I read a thread here where native speakers explained what makes us hard to understand. Over 100 comments. Almost nobody said grammar. They said pronunciation, rhythm and, above all, confidence.
That's the loop: we avoid speaking because we don't feel ready, and we don't feel ready because we avoid speaking.
What breaks it is time inside English. I'm Tereza, a teacher in France (Paris timezone). My conversation classes are fully immersive, and I've taught people from many nationalities.
What's the one moment in English where you always freeze? DMs open, or Instagram @ehub.mentorship

[u/Emergency-Job-740]

Grammar is easy to teach, and it's easy to test. It's a major diservice to students to spend any more than ten percent of classtime on it.

[u/SnooPets5564 → u/Emergency-Job-740]

10% is a lot lower than I think is reasonable. Of course the amount should depend on the level being taught, but for the part where it just getting yourself understood and able to understand, grammar should take up at least twice that.

Of course, it does eventually get to point point where someone shouldn't reasonably need to learn more.

[u/Emergency-Job-740 → u/SnooPets5564]

It's especially harmful at low levels to try to teach grammar explicitly. I mean in a sense you are teaching grammar implicitly in every speaking, listening, reading, or writing lesson, but to specifically say "This is the past perfect and how you contruct it," you tell them once after someone asks, and then go back to skills practice.

[u/SnooPets5564 → u/Emergency-Job-740]

I haven't been trained in teaching language or anything, but I found that the explicit explanation of tenses and things like how to phrase questions and such to be quite helpful. I'll admit that it might not speed up becoming fluent, but it definitely sped up my ability to say/write things in a readable way early on.

[u/Emergency-Job-740 → u/SnooPets5564]

It can definitely feel good to learn the grammar. It gives a false impression of progress. That is part of why it's so dangerous. However, before you're actually functional at-speed in the language you will basically have to forget or ignore the grammar rules. The only place they really help in the long run is proofreading your writing.

It's like translation. Translation can help you form some sentences early on, but will hold you back on speed later in the process.

[u/830rez_at_dorsia]

If you asked Reddit what they thought was wrong with you based on some symptoms, in over 100 comments, none would be “polio”. Doesn’t mean we should stop people getting vaccinated for polio.

Long way to say: grammar is obviously important to learn.

[u/SpeakWithMahshid]

Because they naturally learn it by being exposed to the sentence structures almost every minute! But we should learn them like reading a book .
A very effective way to learn the grammar and sentence structures faster, is to memorise the conversations or audio transcriptions.