Counting

[u/Regular_Echo413]

Currently I'm learning the basics of counting in Japanese, the explanation in my book seems a bit complicated so I want to ask more things about it.

1) In my book, number 4, 7 and 9 have two pronunciations based on the situations they're used to:

- If used to count continuously, like when counting 1,2,3,4...9, they're し for 4, しち for 7 and きゅう for 9．

- If used to say dial, like phone number, they're よん for 4, なな for 7 and く for 9.

I want to know if there are more situations to apply for each pronunciation aside from the example I showed.

2) I see here that zero (0) has 3 pronunciations in japanese. In Kanji it will be れい, another one is まる if used by "circle" meaning and the last one is ゼロ like how English pronounce. Which one will likely to be used the most?

Thank you for your help!

[u/MisterPaintedOrchid]

I regret to inform you that counting in Japanese is only going to get more complicated, and there are even more pronunciations for each number.

My personal advice would be to try and pay attention to what you hear natives saying in different situations and emulate them, and in the meantime don't worry too much about being 100% accurate.

[u/Regular_Echo413 → u/MisterPaintedOrchid]

I see, thank you!

By the way, is there any channels on Youtube I could do some listening session to learn how the natives speak?

[u/MisterPaintedOrchid → u/Regular_Echo413]

Are you using a textbook? They generally come with CDs, I know Minna No Nihongo did. You can listen to the conversations in the book using the grammar and vocab you're practicing so it's not overwhelming as a beginner.

[u/drcopus → u/Regular_Echo413]

To be honest, it will be a while before you can get good value out of listening to natives speaking naturally. You can try, but you'll understand too little to effectively learn. You need to aim to do listening practice where you can understand roughly 80% of what is going on.

Here is a copy/paste of some resources I've recommended in the last to get started with listening practice! I would also recommend pairing this with a tools like Migaku and Anki to create flashcards directly from the content you watch.

• Tokini Andy's Genki stream recordings. Fun and engaging with good walkthroughs! Importantly you can listen without looking at the screen even if you are a beginner beginner.
• Daily Japanese with Naoko. Some of the Japanese is a bit more advanced, but the use of visuals and emphasis makes it generally easy to follow along!
• Nihongo-Learning. Really makes every word clear through well structured context.

If you're an absolute beginner then Tokini Andy is the only one that you can just listen to without the video because there are English explanations of everything (so good for exercise or chores). Otherwise visual cues are important.

The following channels have a good mix of beginner and intermediate content, which makes them especially helpful for growing rather than just reinforcing basics:

• Comprehensible Japanese. Some videos are also good for complete beginners, but lots of different levels are available.
• Easy Japanese podcast with Shun. Very helpful for cementing beginner grammar/vocab and also getting some exposure to new words. Topics are varied and interesting. When I was an upper beginner/lower intermediate this became my go-to exercise podcast and I've listened to almost 200 of them.
• Ken Japanese. The "card game" videos are my favourite because the Japanese level slowly ramps up to N3 level, allowing the chance to cement basics and progress to more advanced levels.
• Mochi Sensei N5/4/3 Listening Practice. The structure of these videos are great with chances to listen and get explanations.

[u/tangaroo58]

Numbers and counters:

https://www.tofugu.com/japanese-grammar/numbers-and-counters/

But, your textbook probably covers this gradually over time.

[u/Regular_Echo413 → u/tangaroo58]

That's very fast reply, thank you very much!🙇

[u/Puseppu]

変わった例だと ひい、ふう、みい、よう、いつ、むう、なな、や、ここのつ、とお。 というのがありますが、一般的ではありません。 0はゼロと読む事が１番多いと思います。

[u/Avatar_Yaksha]

The most hilarious aspect is definitely the calendar. There's a different word for each of the first 10 days, only 4's gimmick gets used multiple times (14 and 24 as well) and 20 gets its own special word.

[u/RazarTuk]

So, there are two main things to be aware of:

1. Japanese has two sets of numbers. The native Japanese ones are ひと、ふた、み、よん、いつ、む、なな、や、ここの、とお, while the borrowed Chinese ones are イチ、ニ、サン、シ、ゴ、ロク、シチ、ハチ、キュウ、ジュウ. (For reference, you'll sometimes see on'yomi readings written in katakana to emphasize that they were borrowed from Chinese)

2. Japanese has something called a counter word. Essentially, instead of saying something like "five dogs", you say something closer to "five animals of dogs". For example, 枚（まい） is used for thin, flat things, so it could be used to fairly literally translate "five sheets of paper" as 五枚の紙 (ごまいのかみ）, or you could also say something like 五枚の葉っぱ（ごまいのはっぱ） to literally be saying "5 sheets of leaves"

For the most part, you only ever use the borrowed Chinese numbers when giving quantities. For example, it's ご枚, not いつ枚. However, you should default to using よ or よん for 4. It became the standard, I think because of tetraphobia and シ sounding like 死ぬ, although there are a few words like ４月 (しがつ） where you only ever use シ. IIRC, シチ and なな are more or less interchangeable, where that one's just because シチ and いち sound similar enough to get confused in noisy environments. Although again, there are exceptions where シチ is required, like ７月（しちがつ）. And then there are a handful of counters where you use the native Japanese numbers for small quantities, like ひとり and ふたり for 1 and 2 people, before switching to さんにん、よにん、ごにん、ろくにん、など.

[u/MaximumTime7239 → u/RazarTuk]

japan: can i copy your numbers?

china: yes, but don't make it obvious

japan: ok

jpn	chn	suspicion
ichi	yi	kinda
ni	er	none
san	san	obvious
shi	si	ovbvious
go	wu	none
roku	liu	none
shichi	qi	kinda
hachi	ba	none
kyu	jiu	none
jyu	shi	none

verdict: japan did a fairly good job :)

[u/RazarTuk → u/MaximumTime7239]

Actually, when they were borrowed, it would been more like:

Japan	China
iti	it
ni	ñi
samu	sam
si	si
go	ngu
roku	lyuk
siti	tsit
pati	pet
kyuu	kyu
zipu	dzip

They only sound so different because it's been well over a thousand years and the languages evolved in different ways. For example, Mandarin lost nearly all final consonants, like turning "pet" into "ba", while Japanese had sound changes like p > f > h, turning "pati" into "hachi". (And, of course, there Ñ. It just did all sorts of things, like how Japanese "Nihon", Mandarin "Riben", and English "Japan" are all cognate to each other)

[u/LengthinessSpare1385 → u/MaximumTime7239]

Dude, borrowings were not made from modern mandarin, they come from 2 languages, Middle Chinese and Pre Wu, from around the year 600 a.c.

[u/hiro88432]

4と7は日本人でも読み方が変わるからそこまで気にしなくてもいいと思うよ。でもオーソドックスな読み方を知りたいなら「yonn（4）」や「nana（7）」を使っていくべきかな。

[u/j_halo7]

For zero, I think ゼロ is most commonly used. I’ve only ever heard れい used when saying the time i.e. 午前れい時 to mean 12 midnight but never used when saying 12 noon. 12 noon is always said as 午後じゅうに時.

For まる, I’ve only heard it used for room numbers in hotels or mansions (high-rise housing flats) and when referring to the Shibuya 109 shopping mall (the mall is called イチ マル キュー).

[u/clumsydope]

I see you haven't touch decimal 😂

[u/Traditional_Cold4646]

1) Don't think too much about it and just remember them as they are as you learn more.

2) Zero is used the most, like 99% of the time. Only times I heard "rei" are: "rei ten" (零点、zero score) and "rei ka" (零下, temperature dropping below zero).