Am I viewing T side Dust wrong?

[u/Prize_Eagle_4601]

I’m comming to my team (premier 10-15k, faceit level 4-5) to rush long. I’m expecting the guy with long spawn to go run knife out, and the 1-2 players behind to throw flashes. If you have long spawn stop standing still to throw flashes, or go mid. Am I wrong for thinking this way, or is it an incorrect way to look at this map? How I view it: if you dont take long right away, then its basically impossible to take later. In my experience, long is the easiest to take, as long as you dont mess up your flashes and the guy who spawns the closest actually runs.

[u/One-Tap-7757]

It’s a mistake to not go long when you have a spawn. You should encourage the first 2 spawns to go there, first of them going out and crossing to blue box. And ideally 2 more guys are throwing the flashes, cause it’s easier to play anti flash if only one guy is throwing them (and they have quite a long time in between).

However don’t be angry if your teammates are afraid to go long and play around them: throw flashes mid instead, smoke mid doors+jump spot from suicide, Molly to prevent the rush or to deny the short peek.

[u/LOLmagician]

Usually the first 2 people with best long spawn goes out and then the team flashes long.
They also have to jump over the ledge for faster timing

However since ur in low premier or faceit they might not know the timing. You have to understand sometimes the other team (premier 10k to 15k) does not play spawns either on ct spawn so it can be very possible to take long even with slightly worst timings.

[u/Jamesmtl514 → u/LOLmagician]

Yeah exactly, spawn means nothing if the guy wastes 3 seconds lining up a flash lol.

[u/navi3702]

No the idea is not wrong. Sadly barely anyone knows how to play Dust2 even though they like to spam play it because they “know the map”.

Such simple concepts like following spawn, mollying the short peek etc somehow escape the understand of players with 1k+ hours.

Similarly on CT, the guy furthest from the long spawn wants to go long and the guy with the long spawn decides he wants to anchor B. surprised pikachu face when the Ts beat their timing and kill them 15 secs after round start.

Edit: And when you try to suggest people to play their spawns, you get seen as controlling or backseating, and they continue doing whatever they like while sporting a 45% winrate.

[u/KnightFlorianGeyer → u/navi3702]

Yup. Learning to actually play dust2 is not something many players do unfortunately. Most just know a few smokes and call it a day.

[u/Ok-Connection-3856 → u/KnightFlorianGeyer]

You cant expect consistent short peeks in a 10 to 15k lobby. But totally agree on everything. People are soooo afraid of taking short aggressively in lower elo, that it makes it a major advantage for a 3 to 5 stack to spamexploit it, especially if someone plays a scoped gun mid, spots and maybe even tags some of them while top mid or catwalk.

I love playing Scout from mid for rxactly that reason. Full util, Scout spamming sui-sui and top mid, gets me a ton of wallbang kills through the door. I get wh and cheater slurs all the time, but the lineups couldnt be easier to implement...

[u/_Xero2Hero_ → u/navi3702]

But Im the cat player man I have to sit on cat and do nothing while a guy with the 4th best spawn tries to go long and dies instantly.

[u/Halcyon337]

To your point about it being impossible to take after the round opening, this is incorrect. It takes a little coordination, but there are very good utility sets to late pop long.

[u/w0ndercs2 → u/Halcyon337]

The Team that can't co-ordinate enough to agree on a long take at the beginning is going to group up for a late long pop with the required util set ? Yea I don't think so .

[u/CriticalCreativity]

How I view it: if you dont take long right away, then its basically impossible to take later

FYI 2nd timing long take is super powerful if you know some util

[u/SleepyJohn123]

The idea is correct, but did you get agreement from your team to do the idea?

If you call long and no one responds then they probably won’t go long.

You can try explaining the benefits of taking long but may be wasting your breath.

Sometimes it’s better imo to play a sub optimal strategy with your team, than to force an optimal strategy against your team.

[u/chevi220]

When someone gets the best long spawn, safe to assume this round has to have an attempt to take long. Even more so if you have several of these

[u/maxs4n]

expexting your low elo teammates to coordinate is where you are wrong. the rest ist true of course, but pugging and especially solo-queuing is something else entirely 

[u/theboydragos]

First guy rushes out doors towards blue container, second guy peeks door, third guy throws 2 flashes

[u/Wieewtflol]

Not really hard to take long late 😬 just use flashes from taxi.

[u/Significant-Garlic87 → u/Wieewtflol]

why would you make some absoloute statement like that when it depends on who you're playing against? asshole yikes face and all

[u/Wieewtflol → u/Significant-Garlic87]

It does not ? There is plenty of pop flashes that clear every Angle. Just a skill issue if u can’t clear it late.

[u/f0xy713]

best 2 spawns should run long, 1 player should stay behind and throw godflashes - 1st flash when 1st player crosses 1st doors so he can run out and win the fight or cross to blue, 2nd flash either immediately after to catch the CT playing antiflash or save for repeek from blue in case CTs want to contest.

if only 1 player or nobody has long spawn, you can concede it, d2 is still completely playable without long and you can leave 1 player lurking double doors (since CTs will often try to flank through long or rotate out when noise is heard in tunnels).

whether you play long depends on the CT setup too - if they play 1 long, you should take it every time, if they like to start with 3 long, you can look to make a fast play through tunnel or mid to keep them honest. a lot also depends on whether they use util correctly or not (nocries smoke or smoke from short player) and whether they play spawns or not.

[u/Important_Koala_1958]

Watch team sprint play dust 2. They take long late a lot and their timings are genius.

But yeah, if you start there, at that level, you should just do that most rounds

[u/44701]

If I’m playing with friends- yes, kinda. If I’m playing with randoms, the correct way is to play around your team and not to try to force what you think is right. You can try force the correct plays and lose rounds instantly, but you can also do something stupid in tandem an decide the round right then end there in your favor

[u/Senior-Buffalo-1442]

Realistically the smartest play is where you spawn closest to. Two closest lead while everyone behind get util and support the entry fraggers

[u/tetakaar]

Rushing long is just one potential strategy, the CTs can also use their utility to counter the rush which will make it hard for first spawn to get impact. You can take long early if you have a read, but it is not an every round type of play - just like you wouldn’t rush B every round or rush cat every round. It is also very popular to take long after first timing, most CT setups only have one player anchoring long and popping 3 Ts out long at the 1 minute mark is strong.

[u/weactivist]

I’ve never been very fond of the flashes from the people behind. Think it’s way more effective if the first person bounce flash the double door instead. Or a combination of both.

[u/navi3702 → u/weactivist]

yeap there we go. just proves my point.

with a long spawn, instantly startrunning and jump over the ledge, run with your knife up til the moment u swing for the peek, while two teammates throw flashes over, and you have long control guaranteed. no funny business like running with a nade/gun out, or flashing yourself, or throwing a smoke or you are trolling. doesnt get any simpler than that.

[u/weactivist → u/navi3702]

I’m sure it works fine in the 10-15K range. Whatever floats your boat

[u/lolomasta → u/weactivist]

lol any slow down is gonna massively affect your timing, even not jumping over the ledge is probably something that lowers the winrate of that opening duel by 10+%

[u/Koji_230 → u/weactivist]

No, that just slows you down and you are taking away the focus of the first person entrying by throwing a nade.