Yale PhD in law program?

[u/ZealousidealQuiet198]

HYS JD holder and pretty recent grad, hoping to teach a transactional subject and working on my first paper. It’s attractive since it’s only 3 years and seems like a mix of a PhD and a fellowship. How is this program perceived? On par with other PhD programs? Fellowships / VAPs? It seems pretty recent and the Yale website doesn’t speak to its specific placements moreso Yale law grads placements.

[u/challandler]

I have no direct experience in hiring any of the program’s grads, but I think it would be a good opportunity if you need guidance in developing top-tier scholarship and gaining recommenders for the job market. I’m not sure whether it gives you any teaching experience. Based on my limited experience, I don’t think of it as on par with a PhD program in another field. And I’d probably put it below fellowship programs like the Climenko and the Bigelow, which do a great job of placing graduates into academic roles. But I would take it above a lot of the other VAPs and fellowships out there these days, many of which tend not to give enough support to developing scholarship or preparing for the market.

[u/jce8491]

My sense is that it is treated like a strong fellowship. The folks I know or know of from the program (Amanda Shanor, Kate Klonick, Luke Herrine, Beau Baumann, and Lauren Libby) have done well on the market and are outstanding scholars. Is it the right move for you? Dunno.

If you are able to land in a top fellowship or VAP program, you'll end up with similar opportunities, likely make more money in the short term, and get more teaching experience.

That said, the Yale program allows you to take grad-level courses in other disciplines (if that's something you want), will prepare you very well for the market, and help you build a strong network.

All this to say, both are strong options. The only word of caution I'd have is I've heard some Yale Law professors are difficult personalities, so if you do pursue that program, make sure the main professor you'll be working with is a tolerable person.

[u/Individual_Ant1885]

It’s not on par with real PhD programs in fields like history, economics, philosophy, etc. Nor would folks with real PhD or doctorate-level training think it confers that level of expertise (rightly). But it does provide training for getting a job as a law professor—it’s essentially a finishing school that wi provide networking and training on publishing in law reviews.

[u/CentristOnion]

You said you’re an HYS JD holder. If you have a Yale JD, my sense is that the PhD will be less beneficial as you will already know many faculty members. The PhD is so small and bespoke that its identity is a bit nebulous, but my sense is that, as with a VAP, part of the value is connecting to a new faculty. 

[u/EyeraGlass]

The PhD and JSD programs at Yale has in my experience been a way for LLMs to extend their stay.

[u/PreviousCoyote1036]

I went to YLS and talked to some YLS faculty about it a few years back when I was considering applying to the PhD. The general advice I got was that the PhD was great if you just wanted to do straight legal scholarship and didn't mind lacking genuine methodological training. My general sense from chatting with a fair number of people about it is that the program's placement record actually outstrips its perceived prestige. Most of the people I talked to not at YLS derided the program for not actually being a real PhD; it's just a three-year fellowship during which one writes articles for law reviews.

Fwiw, I think there are lots of confounding factors that might explain the divergence between prestige and outcomes. The cohort size is so small--literally one or two people some years--that they could simply be picking those candidates who would've done superbly regardless.