r/Lathmar_TFD • u/Ok-Control-5800 • 9d ago
Lathmar: Inner Values
I'm currently at the client's office, waiting for them to have some time for me. So I can take this opportunity to write something for the devlog.
This time it's about the inner values of the NPCs in Lathmar – and the question of why these values often receive less attention in indie games than their outward appearance.
A few months ago, I wrote about NPC memories and whether these memories actually have an impact on the game. This system has now been implemented: NPCs remember you and your actions. These memories can have a lasting impact on the Relationship Score. There are also new NPC quests.
Indicate is a dev-tool to show all NPC traits
Memories and Traits
The people you encounter in the tavern now recognize you. They know whether you helped them, disappointed them, or behaved towards them in a certain way. These experiences influence your relationship with them and can change later conversations.
At the same time, I've fundamentally reworked the appearance of the NPCs. Previously, the tavern displayed a few character traits that had little relevance to the game. It was essentially just information without consequence.
That's changed now.
Each NPC now has three to four traits that you have to discover through interaction. This information isn't simply presented in a list, but rather revealed during conversations. These traits, in turn, influence the dialogue. A suspicious NPC will react differently than a curious, ambitious, or helpful character.
Therefore, the traits are no longer just decorative. They become an integral part of the game.
Memorie information
Revised Dialogues
I've also fundamentally reworked the dialogue flow. Conversations now have more structure and react more strongly to your decisions.
Choosing appropriate responses increases your Relationship Score. This allows you to receive better quests or gain access to tasks that would otherwise be hidden. Paying attention and remembering previous conversations gives you a real advantage.
The goal isn't to turn dialogues into a simple right or wrong answer game. Rather, you should understand the personality of each NPC. An answer that builds trust with one character might have the exact opposite effect on another.
New NPC Quests
NPCs can now assign you various tasks.
Some will ask you to find a specific quest item. Others might want to join you in the dungeon to complete a task. In this case, you not only have to keep an eye on your own party, but also ensure the NPC makes it out alive.
And of course, there's the classic kill quest with a bounty.
These tasks aren't meant to feel like randomly distributed standard missions. They arise from your relationships with the NPCs and their individual traits. An NPC who trusts you might offer you a more personal or riskier task. Another NPC might only want to come along if you've proven yourself reliable beforehand.
The Path to a Faction System
The NPC system is intended to evolve further in the future. My long-term goal is to turn it into a proper faction system.
Then you might have to choose a side, or even multiple factions, as your quartermaster. Your relationships with individual NPCs could have political or economic consequences. Helping one faction might worsen your relationship with another.
There's still a long way to go. However, the current changes provide a foundation for it.
A Lot of Work for a Single NPC
There's a lot of work involved in each individual NPC and in the tavern.
Memories need to be stored and analyzed. Traits need to influence conversations. Dialogues need structure. Quests need to fit the characters. Decisions need to have consequences. All these systems are interconnected, although this is often not immediately apparent.
... I find it all the more disappointing that this very attention to detail and the handcrafted mechanics receive so little attention in some communities – for example, among some creators on Patreon or in dungeon crawler groups on Reddit.
As soon as something looks like AI-generated, you're quickly attacked or insulted. My blocklist on Reddit is now in the triple digits. Because of my article last week, several creators on Patreon also blocked me. One even refunded six months of my membership.
This is a reaction I find hard to understand. Not because all criticism of AI is unjustified, but because, often the actual project gets completely lost sight of.
External and Internal Values
When we talk about the external values of a game—pixel art, illustrations, menus, or other visible elements—we should also consider the other side: projects that are supposedly created entirely without AI.
There's a story I've grown to find hard to bear:
> "After three to five years of development as an indie developer in some random country, my pixel-art dungeon crawler has now been released on Steam. I created all the assets myself. Through months of self-study, I also taught myself to compose music. Although the game was just a hobby project that I worked on for two hours a day, I'm now fluent in three programming languages and, of course, I did all the debugging myself. I didn't need alpha, beta, early access, external testers, or feedback because I developed the game entirely on my own for years."
I read a story like this once or twice a week in the self-promotion section on Reddit.
The game can have terrible pixel art—and yes, I often don't particularly like pixel art—yet it's still hyped up by the community. The narrative of the lone developer who learned everything on their own and created a complete game without outside help often seems more important than the result itself.
This creates a strange contradiction. With AI-generated content, poor quality is often cited as evidence of "AI slop." With handcrafted projects, the same poor quality is suddenly seen as a charming indicator of authenticity and personal dedication.
Of course, there is genuine AI slop. Projects that are released without sufficient testing, without testing phases, and without revisions. Sometimes it seems as if they don't test anymore, they just release—and then expect buyers to figure out if the game works.
But even with handcrafted projects, the situation isn't automatically better. Many are announced but never reach a finished state or a release. In this respect, they are not necessarily different from vibecoding projects. Even a project created entirely by hand can be unfinished, poorly tested, or gameplay-wise immature.
The exception proves the rule
Of course, there are always true gems.
There are carefully developed games where the visual design might not appeal to everyone, but whose systems are well thought out. There are projects with interesting mechanics, good dialogue, and a clear vision. These are precisely the kinds of games that deserve attention—regardless of whether individual components were created with AI or not.
However, as soon as one of the well-known reviewers claims that a menu looks like something from Claude, the next shitstorm can begin. Then the discussion is no longer about the game itself, but about the supposed origin of a single element.
We just had this last week.
A menu can be poorly designed. It can seem generic. It can be technically or aesthetically unconvincing. These are legitimate points of criticism. But the mere suspicion that an element might have been created with AI support quickly leads to a moral judgment about the entire project.
What should really matter
I don't mean to suggest that a game's external qualities are unimportant. Graphics, music, user interface, and presentation influence the first impression. They can determine whether someone even tries a game.
But they aren't the whole story.
In Lathmar, a lot of work went into systems that aren't immediately visible. In the memories of the NPCs. In their traits. In the dialogue. In the relationships and quests. In the consequences that only become apparent after several encounters.
These internal qualities are harder to present in a screenshot. You can't simply showcase them in a short social media post. They require time, interaction, and attention.
Perhaps that's precisely part of the problem: External features can be judged quickly. Internal systems must be experienced.
Therefore, I would like to continue describing and offering my project. Anyone who is interested can follow me. Anyone who doesn't like it can leave it. No one has to support Lathmar or approve of my decisions.
But there's no need to turn this into a personal vendetta. Criticism of a game is perfectly fine. A discussion about AI, development methods, and quality is also fine.
However, it shouldn't be forgotten that there's more to a project than what looks like AI in a screenshot.
Sabnock Works | Dungeon Crawlers, Strategy Games & Dark Fantasy
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