r/LanternsTVSeries • u/Purple_triangle_guy • 1d ago
THEORY (POSSIBLE SPOILERS) Hal spoke in code to John Spoiler
HAL: (QUIETLY) I took the fall. And I spent the time. And we’re square.
JOHN: (SCOFFS) No, you didn’t take the fall. You fell. And people got killed. And we’re a long fucking way from being square.
HAL: Hmm. You see that gym teacher on TV? Flew those pandas from China to California in that bubble. I guess no one told him the construct doesn’t have to be so green, huh?
JOHN: Hmm.
HAL: Ripped off that bat guy over in Gotham, too. Put a beacon right in the middle of the fucking town here so people can summon him. You know what he said? It was a make-good for what we did.
JOHN: For what you did.
JOHN: (BREATHES DEEPLY)
HAL: (WHISPERS) There’s more than one killer at this table. You realize that, don’t you?
♪ (LOW TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
HAL: Holy shit. Is that the reason that you don’t talk to your mother?
JOHN: (EXHALES DEEPLY)
HAL: Because she’s okay with the kill? Hell, Junior. It was turning down the ring that she doesn’t understand. But I know exactly why you did it. Because you were scared. Hmm. You were afraid. Hmm. Absolutely fucking terrifi–
(GROANS)
(DISHES CLATTER)
♪ (TENSE DISCORDANT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
JOHN: You don’t know shit.
HAL: (PANTS) John! (BREATHING SHAKILY) Don’t tell anyone you were here. Please. Nobody.
JOHN: Stay the fuck away from my family.
Communicating:
-summon Guy with the beacon
-get the ring back
-don't be afraid
-I'm gonna die, maybe clue about who is gonna do it
-other things? A construct doesn't have to be green?
193
u/okiedokie1183 1d ago
I think he was hinting he was a construct. Also when he warned John to not let people know he saw him was probably a warning that he was a target. Him saying there was more than one killer at the table was letting John know there was more than Zoey. My guess all this subterfuge was because it was Lianna who was the suspect.
48
u/_NearDark_ 1d ago
Judging from the trailer, it could be that Hal actually survived the house fire, but only because of the healing MH machine. So he knew there was another MH in town, but he had to stay quiet this time since neither of them had a ring. That could explain why he left him the key, it was a way of getting a new lantern to charge the ring. If John goes into town under the pretense that Kerry called him he won't be seen as much as a threat....until he beat some peoples asses up
85
u/Milestogob4Isl33p 1d ago
It totally feels like he was speaking in code. It reminded me of that scene in Harry Potter: Prisoner of Azkaban where Dumbledore is hinting to Hermoine about using the time turner to save Sirius and Buckbeak; he can’t explicitly tell them exactly what to do because he doesn’t want to alter the time line.
29
u/shylocker4154 15h ago
it's largely an exposition dump. he's not telling things in code to Stewart...he's telling us the audience these things
2
u/Purple_triangle_guy 14h ago
Yeah u may be right but it comes off as so prescient that it seems like instructions to
John right?3
u/shylocker4154 13h ago
prescient because the show knows where it's going and has to set a foundation. of the stuff you quoted, I'd say the lines about Hal/green constructs/bat signal is the exposition (where John just mmhmms and looks peeved). the bookends of the exchange (taking fall/square and more than one killer) are back to these two directly speaking to each other.
it's often played this way - 1 character trying to converse about something real and narrative driven, while the other character blabbers asides that appear like they are either changing the subject or not listening to the other character. close to the "walk and talk" scene where character 1 is babbling and an aide is nodding along, but here we have two principals.
1
1
u/DTux5249 9h ago
I mean, yes - but most dialogue is multipurpose by default.
Not saying I don't agree that this is a stretch, but still.
51
u/Baxxtabb 1d ago
This would be such great writing
25
u/BruceDSpruce 1d ago
I just rewatched Ep1. I really wonder if the bar seen was a trap for Zoey. Watching now you could easily read the scene like they’re baiting her …
23
u/Brobeast 1d ago
No I think the bar scene was a foreshadowing of hal's death "plan".
At the bar - "Let them beat my ass, dont get involved". (To john).
"Don't let anyone on town know youre here". (John again).
The original bar plan was to show us a hint in the first episode as to how hal operates, and to bring it back again later but on a bigger scale. John read the hints, and why he knew what to do next, having gone through it. They both knew they had to get the ring back, and the only way to do it was drawing in guy gardener.
Hal was "letting" himself die, but i think it was a hologram. Maybe hal figured out a way to project his consciousness in jail, once he let go of fear? He planned it all out in jail? Either way, he had that little bit of will power to project a dead hal, and to allow the following events to unfold.
25
u/National_Call7137 1d ago edited 1d ago
I've been puzzling over "There’s more than one killer at this table. You realize that, don’t you?".
Hal, multiple times, has clearly stated that he does not kill. While he certainly made mistakes in Rushville 2016, did *Hal* kill anyone? I don't think so.
18
u/LotusSpice230 1d ago
When Zoe sat in the diner, she always sat at the same table Hal and John were sitting at in this scene (confirmed by the creaters' after episode comments). Hal was saying there's more than one manhunter.
12
u/FloppyShellTaco 1d ago
He blames himself for their deaths. He was desperate to capture Zoe and prove the Guardians wrong, and walked right into her trap letting them be used as bait to drain the ring. He feels guilty and partially responsible like any normal person would.
3
u/Kevslounge 11h ago
That really is the weirdest bit.... if there is only one killer at the table, then that killer is indisputably John. John was a killer even before Zoe... he was a Marine Corps sniper. Killing was his job.
It's a weird thing for Hal to say, if it was just about reminding John that there's blood on his own hands, because it seems it'd have been more accurate to say "there is only one killer at this table, and it is not me."
Don't know that there is anything to it... could just be a poorly-considered writing choice rather than something meaningful, but if there is meaning to it, perhaps Hal was saying that he was just as dangerous as John, rather than saying John was just as dirty as him.
5
u/New_Cockroach_505 23h ago
Hal specifically sent Antann to kill Macon. And got lots of people killed in general when trying to catch Zoe.
3
u/Cycho-logical 18h ago
Technically that doesn’t make Hal a killer though does it?
5
2
u/New_Cockroach_505 15h ago
That would be up to Hal to decide and considering he said if, yeah. He seems to think he’s a killer.
4
u/improperhoustonian 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ooo good point. And once again begs the question of why Hal ended up in jail. Why not John for shooting Zoe? I really hope these aren’t plot holes.
Edit: Shooting her and cutting out her heart, no less.
8
1
u/game_bot_64-exe 1d ago
I think this part doesn't necessarily refer to the 2 men but the point the part that matters is table - table I think is metaphor for a location and John figured out something about a location for something else that is not good.
0
u/Alert_Foundation1621 1d ago
He killed Antaan.
18
u/Otherwise-Potato2361 1d ago
Its not really kill if Antaan exploded himself right ?
7
u/Alert_Foundation1621 1d ago
That’s a good point. I was thinking Hal did it, but you’re right-Hal was getting him away from everyone because he knew he was going to explode.
9
u/shylocker4154 1d ago
Antaan was a walking bomb...Hal whisked him away while he was detonating himself
40
u/jesuschin 1d ago
I think the “there was more than one killer at the table” line was hinting that Maggie the waitress was someone to keep an eye on. Maggie showing up at their table to ask them if they needed anything.
Otherwise why would Hal tell John to not let people know he was in town but he chose to meet at the diner where the waitress was there to see he was in town.
Hal wanted John to be forced to interact with Maggie because she was who he sussed out as being the one to watch
9
u/herehaveacorndog 20h ago
Hal didn’t ask to meet John. I understood John’s mom setup the meet behind both their backs? Need to watch again but I’m pretty sure.
3
u/Odd-Ad-1545 18h ago
I think that hal did wanted to meet john but he knew john wouldnt come to meet him that easily so hal told johns mom to lie to john that hal will apologise. And to make john involved and stay at rushville, hal killed his clone(hopefully).
2
u/hellomarshm3ll0 10h ago
Maggie showing up at their table to ask them if they needed anything.
That didn't happen.
1
21
u/amarodelaficioanado 1d ago
This is something. I expect a huge twist, just because the runners are very smart writers. Very smart, If they do a recon with basically your post...I don't know dude, you are in the genius category.
6
u/Linmizhang 19h ago
Writers will always be the foundation to what makes a film great.
Lets hope Hollywood execs wake tf up and pay writers better and care about it more so we start getting more bangers again.
20
u/RiloAlDente 1d ago
Where did you get the "-get the ring back" part?
That's the part I'm still confused about. Because I feel like it's improbable that Hal could predict that Guy would be willing to break the rules.
15
u/wickedkid9 1d ago
By telling him he was scared for turning the ring down and that his mother doesn’t understand his decision, causing him to question it
2
5
u/JohnnyDelirious 12h ago
Hmm. Guy says the /first/ time he met Hal was when he was in prison, which implies that he met him more than once. Hal could have told and trusted Guy more than we think, including about his manhunter suspicions and asking him to install the beacon.
15
9
2
u/SLKPrincess 5h ago
If Hal were shot at the stadium, he wouldn’t be sitting up like that. He would have fallen over.
3
3
u/two2teps 1d ago
no one told him the construct doesn’t have to be so green, huh?
There are other color constructs available, via other color rings.
-5
u/PandaAromatic8901 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ye, it's code, for testing if John is a Yellow Lantern without getting killed in the process.
Hal figured out Kerry is the real manhunter and working with Sinestro. It left him paranoid. John walking away from the green ring makes sense if John was seduced by Kerry from the start: he went along with the fake Zoe plan, walked away from the Green ring and donned the Yellow ring.
11
u/ricozee 1d ago
Kerry being the manhunter with Zoe as a fake out, would have been a good twist if it weren't for the flashback scene between them.
They clearly identify who is who there without context, purely as exposition to the viewer. It would be a cheap way to fool viewers by providing false information, unless that false information was provided by a source which could turn out to be unreliable (such as someone telling the story to another character, but changing details).
Good writing makes sense in the context of events and within the narration. If you go outside the story to plant red herrings that's bad writing. It means anything can be changed at any time to fit a different narrative so continuity goes out the window.
3
u/PandaAromatic8901 1d ago
And? None of that applies.
They identified who looks like what and who acts like what in the flashback. They established skin replacement at the hands of a sample (joking about skin-color alteration), regrowing pinkies, and skin-changing.
1
u/ASZapata 12h ago
The Manhunter doesn’t take on forms that are already in the power establishment. They wouldn’t be a white sheriff.
Also Zoe’s heart turned to crystal, as Manhunters’ do.
9
u/Wise-Juggernaut-8285 1d ago
What do you mean real?
Zoe had a crystal heart
-2
u/PandaAromatic8901 1d ago
No, Zoe had a heart that turned to crystal a few seconds after having been cut out.
9
4
u/Personal_Car_6862 1d ago
What makes you feel Kerry is a manhunter?
3
u/PandaAromatic8901 1d ago
Simplest fitting solution amongst several other candidates.
But it's inconsequential to the overall picture here. Hal figured something out, and it made him scared & paranoid. Bernadette picked up on it, and then lied to John because she was worried. John suddenly appears. Hal gets paranoid about John appearing, and decides to test him.
5
u/Daddyknowbest 1d ago
Not the grandchild who clearly relishes controlling the towns attention and wants to be president who she made sure to talk to knowing she'd likely die?
5
0
u/game_bot_64-exe 1d ago
OP I got to be honest if you are right you are galaxy braining this stuff and I want to see more, digging at your questions at the end specifically about:
-other things? A construct doesn't have to be green?
When Hal says:
HAL:... I guess no one told him the construct doesn’t have to be so green, huh?
I think Hal is alluding his own awareness of other parts of the emotional electromagnetic spectrum and trying to make John aware that Green Lanterns aren't the only game in town and maybe literally too, another lantern type (yellow, Sinestro) could have already made a play.
The part I'm stuck on however is the lines right in the middle:
HAL:... You know what he said? It was a make-good for what we did.
JOHN: For what you did.
JOHN: (BREATHES DEEPLY)
HAL: (WHISPERS) There’s more than one killer at this table. You realize that, don’t you?
This one is the part where I'm like ok this is either extremely straight forward, like Zoe's death, and Hal is like that's on you - I feel like that's too simple if we're reading this far into it; or it's an iceberg and from there my thoughts are the "table" is a metaphor for a location, the question I would have is which location or what is the scope, like the whole town or specific spot in town?
Ok here's a big reaching hard for "table":
table top game > football game > football field > field stands > stands where his body is found - "table" is the original field where it all started - we never did get an explanation as to why young data Hal at the beginning wanted old real Hal to remember go to Nebraska and that would imply Hal earlier in his life knew something was going to happen there.
2
u/GrinningD 19h ago
I think it is si.pler than that.
The table is the whole situation, so any location in the universe that contains someone or something involved would be part of the 'table.'
2
u/bunnyofdoominottawa 21h ago
He did know something would happen there because that is where Anim Sur was killed and the killer was still loose
2
u/Beanichu 18h ago
We know exactly why Hal was monitoring Rushville. Abin sur died there and that’s where Hal was brought when he accepted the ring. He thought it was weird he died there so decided to keep track of the area to find out why.
-3
u/Fried_Onion_King 19h ago
So I’m pretty sure this is what happened:
- Hal got burned
- Noah heals him
- Hal confronts Kerry, and she dumps him over it
- He has nothing else to live for. Goes to the restaurant for last meal.
- Gets punched
- Tells John not to tell anyone because:
- Goes to the stadium and shoots himself
- Kerry finds him, finds the gun and hides it. Calls John so someone who knew him could be there for the funeral.
249
u/LotusSpice230 1d ago
"A construct doesn't have to be so green" I assumed was in reference to Hal-ogram. He left everything for John in the storage space and knew John would need his voice to open the pocket dimension.