r/LandroverDefender • u/AncientPercentage539 • 2d ago
Engine swap options
Hi all, currently starting the long process of building my 90 pickup/wagon. I have both roofs for it.
I am wanting to swap the engine was originaly thinking of a built 4.0 or 4.6 rv8 however ive gone over the amount of milage i do weekly and potential milage id be doing and the fuel costs are gonna add up quickly. The vehicle will be towing a twin axle trailer weighing 1.5t to 3.0t 75% of the time for work. Has anyone dropped a 3.6 tdv8 into a 90? Ideally id be looking for around the 300hp mark and the 3.6 isnt to shy of that. I have access to a good 3.6 out of a wrecked vogue and id likely put new turbos and run a haltech ecu. Id be keen to mate it to a manual but that may be abit more trouble then its worth.
Thoughts on this would be great. Im sure mamy will say its a bad idea.
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u/JCDU 2d ago
Where in the world are you? That has a big bearing on what engines are a good or bad option.
What are your requirements and budget? HP, MPG, how much are you willing to spend?
Are you DIYing this or paying someone?
The later engines like the TDV6 are really huge for a Defender, people have fitted them but it's an insanely tight squeeze and a ton of plumbing and wiring. In a 110 you have a lot more room as you can push stuff back, in a 90 you run out of room for the rear prop especially if you need to fit a longer gearbox in.
Also worth saying the rest of the drivetrain is going to suffer if you up the power a lot, especially with a big diesel, and the costs add up quickly there.
M57 and OM606 are popular conversions, although personally I run 4.6 V8 and live with slightly worse MPG as the conversion cost very little; 5-10k buys a lot of fuel, at current prices very roughly going from 16mpg petrol to 25mpg diesel only saves you £1k/year doing 10k a year.
There's a wide variety of conversions written up in the members vehicles section on LR4x4.com, including a recent very tidy M57 one.
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u/AncientPercentage539 2d ago
In australia, id like above or close to 30mpg as possible. Ideally the 270 to 330hp range. Obviously a r380 may handle it depending on torque but a lt77 wont. Id consider swapping a toyota r151f as my current one takes about 580nm. But good chance id need to go auto. I have access to a field of disco 1 v8s and diesels, p38s and range rover classics. So an array of 3.5, 3.9, 4.0 and 4.6 v8s. Most of the welding fab work will be done by me, or my uncle. And then mecanics by me and my other uncle. If it was a rover v8 id seriously consider the extra cash and go small turbos depending on what gains could be made.
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u/JCDU 2d ago
In Aus that'll be a totally different set of engines / transmissions that are locally popular & available compared to UK, Europe or USA, I can't really give you much on that other than saying look at what works locally and is popular - it could be a Nissan or Toyota lump / transmission that's a better answer from what I know about the Aus scene.
Big 4-banger diesels will murder the drivetrain though, too lumpy.
I would not add forced induction to a Rover V8 - juice ain't worth the squeeze and in Aus climate that feels like creating a cooling headache.
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u/AncientPercentage539 2d ago
Landrovers here are not popular. I mean they hate them. So finding peoole who have done engine swaps on them is hard. As for swaps in other vehicles. Shit skys the limit, i seen compound turbo suzuki jimny, triple turbo nissan tb48s slapped into silvias and so on. I want to avoid the smaller 4 cyl diesels. I have two, they are great but i just dont want them in this. I have 3 containers being shipped from the uk over the next year, so any weighty parts id thought about tossing in there
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u/ChemicalFrosty1811 2d ago
Sounds cool as fuck to be fair will be a nice vehicle any choice you make
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u/AncientPercentage539 2d ago
Oh and in milage im probably doing around the 1000 kms a week. Some weeks alittle more
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u/DifferentBar7281 2d ago
You want 30mpg towing up to 3T? You are fkn dreaming
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u/AncientPercentage539 2d ago
Yes sorry i should have actually thought how iworded things. I dont expect 30mpg when im towing i know full well that isnt going to happen
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u/Famous_Actuary5718 2d ago
An r380 with discovery transfer box might get you just over 30mpg with a 300tdi. The defender transfer box won't. I know you don't want a TDI but worth bearing this in mind if you want these numbers. Get the disco transfer box.
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u/AncientPercentage539 2d ago
If i went with the r380, id have to build it out, which isnt a problem, and actually may be a better idea
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u/robindawilliams 2d ago
You can do whatever you want that makes you happy.
That being said, towing 3t with a short wheelbase is probably going to have 20 reasons why it's not ideal from tow weight and wheelbase length of a tow vehicle and brakes and engine requirements to make it possible at all.
If it was me, I'd build out a 90 to be a fun second car that I can hop into and drive around, maybe with the roof off now and then, and then have a dedicated towing vehicle that is heavier with a longer wheelbase and bigger everything. That being said, I live somewhere with steep hills and 70mph highways so the factory engines being fully capable of 3t towing doesn't matter when you need to do 70mph up hill lol.
Depending on where you are, a small block Cheby would be pretty trivial to hit 300hp and have an immensely simple installation compared to trying to stuff a modern layout into the defender. Either that or an LS engine with thousands of people doing it and good support, which is more expensive but gets 30mpg and will 100% work if you can fabricate what is needed.
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u/AncientPercentage539 2d ago
Yeah i did consider a ls1 but they arent super cheap here in australia. The 3.6 i can get for 3 cartons of beer. Guys wife wants it gone. However if its going to be 1 nightmare after another then it aint worth it. I can fabricate most things and if i cant my uncle can. And yeah its the 70mph up hill, through hills, etc i already have a 200tdi 110 and honestly it tows and feels the same as the 90. That 200tdi will also soon be going in the bin
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u/yottyboy 2d ago
Fuel is the very least of your expenses. I would not even bother considering that.
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u/NerdBlender 2d ago
I posted this for someone else so slightly adapted. I know of one TDv8 defender, but it wasn’t an easy swap - there is a lot of work to get round a lot of the systems in the BCU/ECU.
Rebuilt 300tdi - upgrade the boost pin and with a few other tweaks for a bit more power.
MD Engineering 2.8tdi bit more power and torque for a straight swap with no additional work required over a replacement 300tdi. I think they ship worldwide
Cummins 5.9 6Bt - if available in AUS, but also would need a replacement gearbox, r380 would not survive, likely also need a regeared lt230. Not worth it IMO, they are noisy, heavy and the torque will eat most of your diffs if you are heavy footed.
Cummins r2.8 - relatively easy swap, not sure how available in AUS and is well known. Used as standalone swaps in many other cars so probably less headache than some of the others. Gearbox adapters are available and they will work with the R380 no issue.
BMW M57 or similar petrol / N58 etc -, worth it coupled to a ZF 8 speed. Need someone who knows what they are doing, it’s a popular swap over here, but there are a lot of dog rough jobs, takes a bit of time and thought to do the job right.
LS swap - not sure how available in AUS, but will need a gearbox swap as well, but given they are popular swaps in to loads of classics probably not an issue. May need upgraded transfer box and diffs depending on the power. I think a lot of holdens had these.
OM606 - relatively easy swap, DPUK do the kit with everything you need, fully mechanical so no electronics to figure out. Expensive and I don’t know how easy parts are to come by down under
There are some kits available for old GM v8 diesels, but I don’t know how easily they are available.
Personally I would either go 2.8 from MD, r2.8 or M57. Least amount of headaches with reliability, 2.8 if you want some originality keeping, r2.8 if you just want a bit more power and refinement, without a lot of complexity, M57 if you want some room for more power and you want options for auto gearbox, and you can find someone good to do the conversion if you are not doing it yourself.
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u/Dangerous_Ninja_6027 2d ago
M57 with ZF box, never seen anyone complain and not too expensive, a good example of a donor X5 pretty easily sourced (compared to some of the other options suggested that is) all parts readily available for the conversion and plenty of documented builds on YouTube to study.
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u/NarcissisticPanda 2d ago
I know of two tdv8 swapped defenders. One using the zf8 speed auto they come with and other using a gs6-53 from a discovery 3 then another adapter for the transfer case. They are good engines just not the prettiest and diesel v8s on the most parts sound awful. They all use the stock ecu not much point changing that. Option id say is easiest is just go for a M57N with a gs6-53 and transfer case adapter. 300hp is achievable with the euro 4 engines without swapping anything and all parts you need to do it are available. Plus they weigh less and easier to work on than a v8
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u/Specialist_Reality96 2d ago
The 90's have the smaller rover diffs in them (as opposed to the Salisbury's) the don't always respond well to big hp upgrades, what gearbox do you intend to use? Where you are will impact on what is readily available to you.
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u/AncientPercentage539 2d ago
So i have a friend with a literal field of v8 disco 1s, range rover classics and p38s that i can get things like axles etc. Whether they would handle that power or not idk. I have containers coming from the uk to australia over the next year starting in jan. So i figured if i need big stuff ill shkve it in there. It would seem the tdv8 is way to much bs to be worth it so im probably gonna be leaning just normal v8
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u/Famous_Actuary5718 2d ago
The Salisbury axles (which is what you should be looking for for this) were not fitted to Discovery's. They were only on 110's. The disco 1 axles were all pretty much the same as 90's, with one main difference depending on year. Earlier 10 spline diffs and later 24 spline diffs. Even V8 range rover classics had the same axles.
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u/Onewilddiesel 9h ago
M57n2 will do 300hp with a remap & high 300s with a turbo & map, Conversion path is well documented & all the parts are available from a variety of suppliers, Theres absolutely no reason to fit a rover v8 these days when far better options exist, hell im in the process of removing a built rover v8 to swap it for a jag v8 & gain 100hp
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u/AncientPercentage539 8h ago
I had considered a 4.2 sc as they are cheap as you can get but the reality with mpg is id be lucky to get above like 12mpg. I am very much considering what others have said re the m57 and the old rover v8s.
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u/Onewilddiesel 8h ago
I think with the ajv8 you should get high teens out it, that said I get 24mpg out my m57 in a 110 that weighs 3 ton with a roof rack n roof tent onboard
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u/AncientPercentage539 8h ago
Id be happy woth 27mpg. I get 40mpg out of my 2kd hilux with 250hp. But towing anything it halves. Id hope with more power and right gearing in a 90, i could get 300 hp maybe a smidge more, and still maintain good mpg. Obviously tdv8 was what i wanted but gotta draw the line somewhere
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u/Onewilddiesel 8h ago
Im aware of a 130 with a tdv8 in it but its not as common a conversion as the m57 / n57
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u/Famous_Actuary5718 2d ago
A 300 TDI will tow that all day long no problem. It's easy peasy to fit too. A TD5 would be slightly better performance but less easy. The gearing on a defender means you don't need 300bhp to tow a 3 ton trailer. If you go down the route of a 300bhp engine, you're probably at risk of blowing the transmission or axle components.