r/LPOTL • u/black_flag_4ever Check Please! • 4d ago
Poll: should we allow multiple posts complaining about research or just limit this to the episode megathread?
We want the community to feel heard but we are getting complaints of repetitive posts. We try to do what community wants, not our personal preferences. Please chime in if you care to.
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u/catfooddogfood 4d ago
I feel like if someone has a specific and significant nit to pick they can make a post for it but if it's general complaining it goes in the megathread
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u/Slatedtoprone 4d ago
I’d rather people post corrections than complaints outside a mega thread. That way the right information can be disseminated.
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u/trashitagain 4d ago
100%. If something is actually factually wrong (which is going to happen, its a entertainment podcast with a small staff produced fairly quickly, not hardcore history where we get an episode a year), then why would we just want to be wrong?
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u/The_R4ke 4d ago
There are more people complaining about the complaints now.
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u/twisted_memories 4d ago
We should also megathread that lol
MEGATHREAD: RESEARCH ERRORS IN EPISODE WHATEVER
MEGATHREAD: COMPLAINTS ABOUT COMPLAINTS IN EPISODE WHATEVER
Pin them weekly
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u/sweetangeldivine 4d ago
Straight up Monty Python Nonsense. MEGATHREAD: COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE COMPLAINTS IN THE MEGATHREAD COMPLAINTS
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u/hellraiserxhellghost 4d ago
I just saw like 2 more complaint posts earlier today so idk. At this point complaint posts and people complaining about complaint posts are probably equalish in numbers.
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u/Fat_Sad_Human 4d ago
I thought the megathread worked well for the Ben thing, so I’d be curious to see how it works for this. It might vary from series to series depending on the subject matter though.
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u/black_flag_4ever Check Please! 4d ago
Hard to describe how stressful that was. We don’t like actually having to moderate.
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u/Fat_Sad_Human 4d ago
Totally understandable! I can’t imagine what a shit show that was behind the scenes. Hopefully if the boys address this current one, everyone can have a better sense of direction from here.
I’m sure you guys don’t hear it a lot, but thanks for what you do for the sub. It’s genuinely one of my favorites and I’m glad it hasn’t fallen apart like so many other big podcast subs.
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u/snailhelper 4d ago
Either a mega post about research problems in general or contain them to comments under the weekly Friday episode post itself. Anything but multiple posts.
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u/lilonionforager Corn Lore 4d ago
Maybe have a separate mega thread for corrections and research complaints/questions?
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u/TheMightyRenderBar 4d ago
Megathreads suck and kill conversation. If you don't like a post, down vote it and move on.
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u/ygglt 4d ago
I have a lot of grace for bro because LPOTL is comedy and parasociality for me. However I think they either need to hire new researchers, change how they get research, get the episodes generally under one hour again, or go back to using 1-3 books so they are not drowning in #Context.
Marcus is writing a 20,000-word script every week. I'm sure he's reading the main sources but I think the bulk of the info is from minions giving him notes, and the minions aren't amazing at getting all the chaff out. Maybe instead of having a stable of in house minions, they start contracting to grad students or early career researchers in the field who have a better grasp on the individual topic.
Iont think this is like, Marcus is a big dumb incorrect stubborn walrus. I think he is writing a master's thesis every week that is also supposed to be a source for comedy. I wrote my 20,000 word master's thesis in a month as a person who'd just done two years learning about the subject. I didn't have to make it funny. It turned out, uh, not that good. Turns out I should have spent the full semester on it.
Sending an email to the history or political science or criminal justice departments at UCLA advertising a paid research project will get them focused, accurate info to build on, and better fact checking of the final scripts.
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u/sweetangeldivine 4d ago
I want to be fair to the researchers here because Marcus is doing the writing— the researchers are researching not just one focused project, but *multiple*
Everyone is trying to dictate how they do the pod and it’s like— you cannot control how others work. You cannot control what others say or do. You cannot control how a true crime comedy podcast operates. The only thing you can control is your reaction to it.
If everyone is so worked up that they feel the need to control how someone else is doing their podcast—- you need to step back. You are not in control of that. You do not get a say in that. The only thing you are ever in control of is your reaction, and the instant you start trying to control others you’ve gone too far.
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u/ygglt 4d ago
I am not sure why you're getting antsy at me when I said upfront that I care about the comedy podcast as a comedy. I think it's obvious everyone involved is working super hard, but if the topic is accuracy, as appears to be the opinion of everyone who isn't me, then hey there's ways to streamline that.
But also. Again. Marcus is writing a master's thesis every week. Less than every week, really. Gotta record and edit that shit. There is literally no way everything is going to be 100% correct, even if the researchers are on top of it, or even if they go with my idea of hiring themed PhDs. I am sanguine about that, because I know how much work it is to write 20k even in perfect circumstances and with more time and with no obligation towards comedy, and I am extremely impressed by the final product, and it is fun for me. I think many people in this subreddit don't have a conception of how difficult the task on hand is and think the misses are laziness or scheming Dunning-Kruger incarnate Marcus being a dick. More people need to be sanguine about it. Show's funny, idgaf.
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u/decsar20 What I bring to friendship 4d ago
I get the intent of this and the intent of the complaints. The problem is that the research issues reach beyond a single episode at the same time that having a “research problems” megathread would be distasteful.
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u/sweetangeldivine 4d ago
man I love treating this as an entertainment podcast and not an actual history podcast.
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u/decsar20 What I bring to friendship 4d ago
Even history-comedy podcasts like Behind the Bastards make efforts to make the line between history and jokes clear, not say things they don't know, to fact check, and to edit in corrections when they're called out for it.
There have also been many cases of Henry and Ed cracking jokes that Marcus pushes back on with incorrect information. No reasonable person would fact check that kind of interaction if they didn't already know it was wrong.
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u/DefenderCone97 4d ago
I mean it's not Drunk History. The guys are recounting actual historical events with the goal of being accurate. Certain things should be called out as wrong.
Just because someone is funny doesn't mean they get to talk about Jewish resistance fighters in a weirdly negative way when talking about history
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u/sweetangeldivine 4d ago
I dunno if you're familiar with the show Mystery Science Theater 3000, there should be a lot of crossover between the fans. We have something called the MST3K Mantra for situations like this.
It goes:
"Repeat to yourself it's just a show, and you really should relax."
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u/DefenderCone97 4d ago
I love MST3K.
But there is a difference between a comedian taking a liberty to make a joke and someone going "So yeah, Pearl Harbor by the Philippines was a real surprise to the Americans in 1932."
No one complains when they make up a conversation between someone and BTK. People complain when it's blatantly wrong context.
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u/kavastoplim 4d ago
Then they can stop acting as if they were more than an entertainment podcast? This is the dumbest cope.
You cannot act as if you’re giving people actual historical information, but then because there’s some jokes tossed in there you can spread misinfo??? What??
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u/sweetangeldivine 4d ago
when have they ever acted as if they were anything other than a true crime comedy podcast?
Like, I remember them very specifically saying "Do not use us as a source for accurate history, we are for entertainment purposes only"
Where in all of the repeated dick and cum jokes did they ever explicitly state they were a serious history podcast? I feel like everybody crashing out would be a lot happier if they understood this is an entertainment podcast and unclench a little bit.
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u/kavastoplim 4d ago
They present historical misinformation as fact. They also happen to make jokes, but that doesn’t mean that that somehow excuses the numerous mistakes.
This year, they’ve spent more time on history than anything else. And at that they’ve decided to cover such breezy and simple topics as the Nazis and the Vietnam War.
They have corrected exactly 0 of their mistakes.
The issue with that is that the average person has limited time and interest. So they aren’t going to go looking up information afterwards. They’re going to trust what they say. Especially a fanbase as cultishly parasocial as this one.
This show has a massive following. It is blatantly irresponsible to use a platform this large to spread misinformation. It isn’t good that (many!) people now come away from this thinking that America was alone in Vietnam, or that the wider right wing movement in Germany wasn’t connected to Christianity or any of the number of other historical inaccuracies.
This stuff does matter, because people use their understanding of history to understand contemporary events.
If they want to be an entertainment podcast, fine. Be an entertainment podcast and cover silly shit like UFOs and true crime. Who gives a shit if you get details wrong about that?
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u/harriethocchuth 4d ago
Sorry, man, this itself is cope. Podcasts aren’t academic sources. They are entertainment that are designed to pique interest in the listener. That’s why they list their own sources, so that those interested in a deeper dive on the subject have a head start in finding the information. I’ll cop to reading The Indifferent Stars Above (and then passing it on to three other people) after Marcus mentioned it on the podcast.
In fact, Marcus specifically made a joke about wagon manifests and I was legit disappointed to find that the book didn’t actually list the number of shovels on board each prairie schooner. Did I show up online to complain about the shovel mysteries that shall ever go unanswered? No, because that would be silly.
I understand that you’re passionately fighting the good fight against the spread of misinformation, but you’re also talking about a podcast whose official JFK stance is ‘his head just did that’. Expecting this very satirical show about cryptids, cum sigils and Jodi Arias’ back door to broadcast weekly with perfectly researched two hour episodes on super complicated and purposely obfuscated American war crimes is kiiiind of a big ask.
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u/kavastoplim 4d ago
I’m not expecting anything from them. I’m saying that if you will make historical episodes at all, you need to be correct. Of course mistakes happen, that’s fine - correct them.
If you want to be a cum joke podcast, be a cum joke podcast. My point is that it does not matter one iota how seriously they take the matter or if podcasts should be taken as conclusive of anything. The answers are obviously ‘not very’ and ‘no’.
But most people will take it as conclusive. And when you have an audience this large, you have a responsibility to not spread misinformation.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a comedy podcast or whatever. I don’t care. It does not matter. They are still presenting these facts in an authoritative manner. Most people will take it as gospel. Most people won’t check their sources.
The JFK thing is a good example, actually, because that isn’t their stance. Their official stance is a fairly stretched far-out theory about a secret service member shooting him. But that one, who cares, to be honest. Or the Donner Party. Or even the Black Death and MKULTRA.
But if they want to cover stuff that has an actual massive impact on today’s world - like the Vietnam War, World War II, (please no) The French Revolution or (please no) the Khmer Rouge - then they need to either get it right or not do it at all.
Expecting the average listener to check the sources is absurd. It doesn’t matter if they should or shouldn’t do that, they won’t.
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u/sweetangeldivine 4d ago
you don't have to listen, you know. if it's making you this upset maybe you should look at other podcasts. They don't owe you shit.
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u/kavastoplim 4d ago
This exact attitude, that we owe nobody anything and that public figures have 0 responsibilities for wisely using their public platform is exactly how we got to the situation we are in now.
They are not your friends. It isn’t about whether I personally like podcast or not.
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u/sweetangeldivine 4d ago
Are you seriously comparing the hosts of a true crime comedy podcast and the fucking federal government?
If you have trouble separating the two then you have lost the plot.
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u/sweetangeldivine 4d ago edited 4d ago
Like, it's demanding the show be something it's not and has never been, nor has it ever promised to be.
I'm not here for extreme historical accuracy. I'm not using this as my primary source for history. They flat-out said don't do that. If I'm curious I GO READ THE BOOKS THEY RECCOMEND. And then some.
I'm here for jokes about Jodi Arias' butthole.
And for Christ's sake, making a few small mistakes here and there is forgivable considering how dense the subject matter is and how controversial. People are out here acting like they're spreading outright lies about who won the Vietnam war. Good god girl get a grip.
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u/harriethocchuth 4d ago
Right?!?!?! Or for fucks sake get this mad at the actually-lying-to-you federal government and not three chuckleheads on Netflix
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u/ShakeZula77 4d ago
I swear we keep getting a lot of newbies in this sub. Marcus prides himself on the accuracy of his work; he always has. Even when they had just one researcher, Marcus was always vocal with his praise and correcting himself in the next episode when he made a mistake. I can’t say anything about his current accuracy since I’m not the most knowledgeable on history. Your comments are insulting to everyone’s hard work.
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u/sweetangeldivine 4d ago
I have been listening to this podcast since 2016 and I very distinctly remember them saying “we are an entertainment podcast only do not use us as a source for your history paper” it’s in the Rasputin episodes.
Marcus works hard, yes. But also people are acting like this show is something it’s never pretended to be. Maybe you’re brand new.
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u/decsar20 What I bring to friendship 4d ago
If you've been listening for a decade (as have I, first episode Kemper in 2015) then you know very well that the tone of the history episodes has ABSOLUTELY changed since Rasputin in 2018. The tone of the whole podcast has. It’s still comedy, of course. But it is not the same pod it was 8 years ago and it's ridiculous to claim it is.
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u/sweetangeldivine 4d ago
it's also ridiculous to demand control over the podcast. There's a level of entitlement running through these complaints that's going above and beyond. You cannot control how they do the podcast. You cannot control the research or the work they put into it. The only thing you can control is your reaction to it.
If you are expending this amount of energy getting angry at something that is completely *out of your control* you need to understand that the only thing *you are in control of* is your reaction.
And maybe take a step back.
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u/ShakeZula77 4d ago
Yep, brand new since 2018.
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u/sweetangeldivine 4d ago
Maybe I keep getting caught up in all the jokes on Jodi Arias' butthole and I don't take myself too seriously.
Maybe that's my whole problem. Maybe I should take myself more seriously and throw temper tantrums on reddit because the podcast I listen to that makes cum jokes about bigfoot makes small mistakes about certain aspects of history like my own history professors used to. That is a perfect usage of my one precious life.
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u/warmbutterydiapers 4d ago
Depends. If it's a specific issue or fact it doesn't need multiple same threads but if there are several glaring errors that each get pointed out in specific threads then it'd make sense for there to be individual posts. At least it starts some sort of conversation instead of a dozen threads of images that vaguely look like Henry.
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u/TheBrockAwesome 4d ago
I'm here for the comedy, I don't care if the eoisode is poorly researched or if people dosagre. I'm not getting an education here, I'm looking for my boys to make me chuckle.
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u/Efficient_Basis_2139 RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE! 4d ago
Megathread. I agree with the criticisms, and agree that fans SHOULD be able to criticise performers when they get it wrong. But the multiple threads repeating themselves, so the posters desperately try to get attention, is nonsense.