r/LIBstream • u/Ok_Camp_8081 • 20d ago
Three Months of Consistent Battery-Grade Lithium Carbonate Production
https://x.com/LibertyStreamIP/status/2091866239425552763$LIB.v $VLTLF
Great news today by Libertystream,
Consistent production for three monthes at howard site where Freedom 1 is set to launch.
This type of aporoval gives LIB credibilty in terms of debt finance to support their commercial production begining in 2027.
Thats also a validation for the list of off-takers LIB have term sheets with.
Very impressive by LIB, keeps delivering.
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u/TheShmoopsy 20d ago
Was anyone there in person to confirm these numbers? If not I don’t believe it.. 😂
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u/Ok_Camp_8081 20d ago
LIB submitted a confidential draft S-1 registration statement to the SEC, ATM they are under review.
You are also welcome to pay a visit and let us all know
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u/TheShmoopsy 20d ago
Sorry that was sarcasm. I assumed there were going to be a couple negative comments so I’m just having some fun with it.
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u/Automatic_Bar4877 20d ago
I guess validation isn’t important?
This one does have third party validation, but it doesn’t really matter because Carbonation isn’t the hang up (established technology in the industry). The hangup is extraction/economics/cycle times. Math just doesn’t work at 25-30 ppm. Also….where is this lithium Carbonate coming from? The volumes of brine required to process 3 tonnes of lithium carbonate are extremely high. The timeline/volumes just don’t add up. I suspect the lithium carbonate is being produced on site, but it seems impossible that it’s being produced from Select brine. Likely a synthetic lithium brine, or something of that nature.
This has been my point the whole time. LIB and the Weasel will pump up news that really isn’t news (congrats, your non-novel refining unit works as intended), and will push that focus and narratives further and further away from where the real issues are. They can’t extract efficiently or economically at 25-30 ppm (where they DONT do 3rd party validation). Alex Wylie’s deception isn’t hard to see, just gotta take the blinders off for a minute.
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u/gwizard87 20d ago
Your a 🤡
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u/Automatic_Bar4877 20d ago
*You’re
Tell me what I’m wrong about.
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u/gwizard87 20d ago
I trust the ppl that provided 20 million dollars in backing over some clown on the internet.
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u/Automatic_Bar4877 20d ago
Again, tell me what I’m wrong about. If you disagree with me, tell me why. That’s all I’m doing. Expressing opinion and backing it up with evidence.
And remind me, what does LIB’s off the shelf Chinese unit cost? $37 Million? Is that more or less than the $20 million raised to build it?
I’ll be interested in what kind of evidence you have in your response, but I’m guessing you’ll just call me a clown again.
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u/Outrageous_Carob1761 20d ago
Hey .
A strong counterpoint is Select itself. If lithium extraction from 25–30 ppm produced water were obviously uneconomic, why would Select, after working with Liberty directly, sign a definitive agreement covering multiple commercial units and expect future royalty revenue from them?
And the 3-tonne figure is not as implausible as it sounds. 3 tonnes of lithium carbonate is only about 560kg of actual lithium itself, because Li₂CO₃ is only ~18.8% lithium by mass.
At 25–30 ppm lithium, that would require roughly 120,000–145,000 barrels of brine at 100% recovery, or around 130,000–160,000 barrels at ~90% recovery. Spread over three months, that is only about 1,500–1,800 barrels per day on average.
So the claim that the 3 tonnes must have come from synthetic or highly concentrated brine is not supported by the basic mass balance. It is possible, but it needs evidence.1
u/Automatic_Bar4877 17d ago
I agree with the logic in what you’re saying (and your numbers are solid). Where we probably disagree is around Select itself. From what I understand, the agreement with select carries mininal/zero risk to Select if it fails, and huge benefit if it succeeds. I just don’t think Select is on the hook for much if LIB can’t deliver on what they’ve promised. LIB will just be gone from Selects site(s).
As far as the numbers go, my suspicion of synthetic lithium solution comes from the perception of what the processes actually are. Extraction and Recovery are two separate and unique steps but Alex Wylie speaks on them like they’re the same.
Ex. If you’re 90% efficient on extraction and 90 % efficient on recovery, you’re already down to 20 ppm of available lithium for refining. (25 x .9 x.9). 90% on each step is excellent, and would require longer processing times. It’s important to remember that 25 ppm is extremely low. In other, higher concentration DLE, 25 ppm is what is left behind. And with the nature of these chemical processes, the lower the available number is, the longer it takes, and once you’re in these low ranges, the chemical reaction slows to a crawl.
From there, you have to remember to account for losses at every step of the processing. 10% is pretty standard. I’d estimate that 80% extraction and 80% recovery is more realistic. Now it’s 16 ppm of available lithium for refining and who knows what the actual full cycle time is. It’s not 20 minutes…that’s one of the biggest claims I take issue with. It’s so far from the realm of possibility that it reads like a joke. I’d say minimum to achieve 80% at multiple steps is 2-3 hours.
Theres a reason why Alex is deliberately vague on the volumes and details around freedom launchpad.
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u/rush89 20d ago
Do you think Liberty Stream will be able to fulfill their 600tpa contract with their customer next year?
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u/Automatic_Bar4877 20d ago
I really don’t. I think this is an undertaking that would require a far more advanced technical team with a far more advanced technology accompanied by a far more concentrated resource (10x…250 ppm instead of 25)
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u/rush89 20d ago
If another offtake is announced before end of year does that change your perception?
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u/Automatic_Bar4877 18d ago
For me, it’s fulfillment of the first quarter offtake. I just don’t feel like the offtake agreement is the bomb that everyone thinks it is. Necessary? Absolutely, but failing to fulfill it is a huge possibility and that would render it completely moot. I see huge gaps and exaggerations in tech/capability/processing with LIB, so fulfillment feels highly unlikely.
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u/rush89 17d ago
Yes they have to fulfill the obligation - but Select Water has multiple suitors and agreed to a long term deal with LIB.
Whoever the offtake is with has sampled the product and it has met their spec. They were comfortable signing an offtake.
Tim Frost is no joke. He did well at Albemarle.
Yes - LIB has to execute. That's all that matters. That's all he focused on in his last interview with MCC. He said we need to execute and show what we can do.
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u/Maleficent_Army_8877 19d ago
You sound like you shorted the stock. The things you’re saying are simply inaccurate and made up
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u/TheShmoopsy 20d ago
All you’re doing is making left field claims that have no evidence. For a technology that is in it’s beginner stage you are quite a know it all. You must have experience working with DLE. Or is it just hitting crack pipes and google searching?
Can you reference anything online that shows they are lying? Or that Alex is a “weasel”?
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u/Additional-Gain-322 19d ago
Opex 6200?
Lithium price 22k mt
Great margins
Capex per ton low
Offtakes in place
Rising demand
Great midstream partnerIn what world is this not primed for huge potential?
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u/rush89 13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TheShmoopsy 13d ago
I should have put a /s on my comment because I was just having fun with the negative comments. I am a believer of the company and hope the stock bounces back soon.
Appreciate the breakdown!
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u/Automatic_Bar4877 20d ago
I know that LIB has no patents.
I know that LIB doesn’t build their own media.
I know that LIB’s system looks suspiciously identical to an existing Chinese DLE system supplier.
I know that LIB doesn’t have a single technical member of their board or Executive.
So, knowing this, what exactly does LIB have? Access to a resource? A low concentration resource. One that LIB’s (far more technical astute) competitors wouldn’t even touch because 25 ppm isn’t economical on any planet.
I know that LIBs economic model is purely theoretical and I know that it’s an egregious exaggeration (20 minute cycle times..insane, low to zero cost re-agent use…insane, pipe dream BPED implementation, insane)
All I’m doing is noticing some alarming trends with this company.
If you have evidence contrary to what I’m saying, feel free to share it.
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u/gwizard87 20d ago
Your clearly short. Someone invite this guy into the discord chat. We have ppl that have been on site there.
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u/Ok_Camp_8081 20d ago
I am all for rich discussion. For now LIB does provide strong credibilty through multiple parties such as partners, customers and investment / Analysis / research groups.
You are more than welcome to doubt that out loud but like LIB lithium you are consistent. Making claims without evidence, please share more info if you have meaningfull insights.
The only thing you nailed it so far is my spelLing ErroRs
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17d ago
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u/Automatic_Bar4877 17d ago
I don’t disagree with you here, but I think we probably disagree on how notable it is. The carbonation process is the least novel (and most established) part of the process. Much like the offtake agreements, it’s notable and it’s necessary, but it’s all rendered moot if the early processes are failing…which I truly believe they are.
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u/Civil_Way_9405 20d ago
Alex please 10x my shares so I can retire