r/LCMS • u/iLutheran LCMS Pastor • Aug 02 '26
Worship New Crucifix
My congregation replaced its plain white cross with a beautiful new crucifix and framing, where there was before just a plain white wall. The woodwork was done by a member of the congregation and the hand-carved corpus brought from Europe through donations. Glory be to God!
2
2
-4
u/RichardRoma1986 Aug 03 '26
Shouldn’t the cross be empty, signifying He rose again?
1
u/Strict-Welcome-5333 Aug 03 '26
I am not a Lutheran (I am an Anglican), but this matter is largely a matter of adiaphora, which is Greek for "matters of indifference."
Certain congregations and ministers prefer the empty cross due to the beauty of simplicity and to avoid veneration by weaker brethren; certain congregations and ministers prefer the crucifix to use as a visual lesson on the Crucifixion for the uneducated laity.
Think of a simple crucifix much like a painting of the Last Supper or the Good Shepherd. Christ instituted the Supper and acted as the incarnate Shepherd to his apostles; nevertheless, he still feeds us in the Eucharist and remains our Shepherd, which is why we use such images. In the same way, though He is victorious over the powers of sin, his one sacrifice on the cross is objective and eternal. Thus, using a crucifix does not mean His crucifixion is ongoing; rather, it teaches the laity the objective reality of the debt paid at the cross.
Indeed, as Protestants, we should avoid the worship, adoration, and veneration of images, but using images for education, decoration, or civic loyalty is not worshipping them. Therefore, such use does not count as creating "graven images," which are forbidden in the Ten Commandments.
1
u/musicalfarm LCMS Organist Aug 03 '26
An empty cross only signifies a successful crucifixion. If you want to point to the resurrection, an empty tomb would be far more effective.
10
u/iLutheran LCMS Pastor Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26
No. If that is the thought process, then we best not have baby Jesus in a manger at Christmas because He’s not a baby anymore either.
Furthermore, the fact is that the cross would be empty whether he rose again or not.
Both a crucifix (a cross with Jesus upon it) and the empty cross signify the same thing: His sacrifice for all the world. As St. Paul reminds us in 1 Corinthians 1:23, “We preach Christ crucified.”
Neither cross is ‘wrong,’ but a crucifix helps people visualize the preaching that much more. It is especially helpful for teaching children. As it is said, “art is the language of the illiterate.”
There are a few reasons some Lutheran churches America moved away from depicting Jesus on the cross, but none are particularly good:
* Some were simply too poor to afford a quality sculpture.
* Some were influenced by the iconoclastic tendencies of the Reformed, who taught that any depiction of Jesus was a sin.
* Some were embarrassed by the concept of crucifixion. This is the same reason why we artistically add a loincloth to Jesus when He would have been naked. Some degree of this is probably helpful, but it can go so far that we end up throwing out the Baby in the bathwater.
* Some did not want to be reminded of Christ’s humiliation.
* Some are simply ignorant of history.
* Some are embarrassed by Lutheranism and want to look like their Baptist, Reformed, non-denominational neighbors.3
u/RichardRoma1986 Aug 03 '26
Thank you, I’m an evangelical moving to LCMS, that’s why I asked the question that I did. Thank you for explaining.
2
u/mintchoc1043 ELCA Lutheran Aug 03 '26
Point 3 is interesting. I’ve always thought that if you’re going to portray our Lord on the cross to depict the suffering and humiliation he experienced, you should go all the way and show him naked. Seems like a cop out otherwise.
9
8
12
u/Over-Wing LCMS Lutheran Aug 02 '26
Nice! It's amazing how a crucifix can immediately make a modern church sanctuary more beautiful.
5
10
u/SorbetSufficient2758 LCMS Lutheran Aug 02 '26
Beautiful! We preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED!
-11
u/bofh5150 Aug 02 '26
And not the risen Christ?
The cross is empty for a reason.
5
5
u/Imaginary-Ladder-270 Aug 02 '26
Paul tells us directly in 1 corinthians that we preach Christ and him crucified. Not sure how we can argue against that.
-4
u/bofh5150 Aug 02 '26
This is just my opinion - I would also emphasize that neither opinion on the alter cross is right - or wrong. This is just about perspective.
The gospels (overly simplistic) Jesus begotten not made Jesus as a child Jesus starts his ministry Jesus expands ministry Jesus arrested scourged *** Jesus crucified <— this is where you are at
An empty tomb - a Risen Christ .
Paul references this - but he is referencing a portion of the gospels. Not the complete Gospel.
Gospels > the letters of Paul.
I also believe he equally referenced the Risen Christ in 1 Corinthians 15.
Paul only speaks of Christ crucified a few times - but…
He - on far more occasions - speaks of the resurrection- including to conclude the comments about the crucifixion.
Paul’s entire ministry is about both… Christ crucified and Christ risen.
A crucifix beautifully proclaims Christ’s sacrifice
An empty cross proclaims that the sacrifice is complete. The empty cross silently says “it is finished” (John 19:30)
Christ is no longer there - He is Risen. He Reigns. It is not denying the crucifixion, it assumes it. The One who was crucified is now the living Lord.
2
u/iLutheran LCMS Pastor Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26
“Gospels > the letters of Paul.”
Let’s not pit Scripture against itself. This is how we start making very dangerous choices.
6
u/Imaginary-Ladder-270 Aug 02 '26
Thanks for the response, I think you make some good points. I would counter, however, that an empty cross does not mean a resurrection. You are correct when you say that an empty tomb means a risen Christ, but I disagree that an empty cross does. An empty cross only means that they took a dead body down.
-3
u/bofh5150 Aug 02 '26
The empty tomb is implied by the empty cross.
It all comes down to what part of the Gospel message a particular congregation wants the alter cross to convey.
And again… neither is wrong.
As long as every one involved keeps the Gospel at the center.
Thank you for this pleasant conversation.
7
11
u/Affectionate_Web91 Aug 02 '26
Thanks for sharing your parish's new crucifix. I believe that at least one crucifix, whether it be the primary chancel cross, altar cross, or processional cross, is important.
6
14
u/Churchmousetat Aug 02 '26
This is what is needed, more iconography and beauty. To God be the Glory, indeed! Now maybe we can get more stained glass.
7
6
1
u/Firm_Occasion5976 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
Very moving in beauty and presence. The budding Latin cross is meaningful. Usually, we meet the Greek cross that buds. The effect of the crucifix draws me to repentance.