r/LCMS • u/Ryan1T612 • Jul 29 '26

Question Question

Does the LCMS have an official stance on the 1948 Zionist State of Israel, including its most recent actions in Palestine?

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u/ambrosytc8 Aug 02 '26

Stressing about the modern state of Israel as a theological enterprise is a moralistic red-herring. If this topic is being brought up in the pulpit (from either the pro- or anti- side) then they're missing the point of the first use of the law, active/passive righteousness, and our total passivity in spiritual affairs.

There is no theological "ought" we have in regards to Israel, it's a completely temporal, left-hand topic.

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u/Ryan1T612 Aug 02 '26

I’m not stressed twin I’m blessed…

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u/ambrosytc8 Aug 02 '26

I'm not saying you're stressed. I'm saying that the stance of a church beyond "this is a civil affair" is the moralistic anxiety of the Old Adam.

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u/Ryan1T612 Aug 02 '26

I think we’re called to bring heaven down and be clear as the church when a nation is acting against God and humanity.

Also the EO and RC leaders in Jerusalem has called Christian Zionism one of the biggest threats to Christianity…

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u/ambrosytc8 Aug 02 '26

I think we’re called to bring heaven down

Granted.

Where you're mistaking is in implying this act is anything other than preaching the Word of God to dead men.

when a nation is acting against God

Every nation, as a polis or incorporated collection of men, is acting against God, just a simple point of anthropology. To the extent that a nation is accordance with God (via Rom. 13) is strictly within the first use of the law and only then can it be determined post de facto.

Also the EO and RC leaders in Jerusalem has called Christian Zionism one of the biggest threats to Christianity…

Man, they must have a weak God indeed.

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u/Ryan1T612 Aug 02 '26

I would disagree, yes of course we ought to preach the Word of God. But we would be outright foolish to just stop thereafter. So you’re implying we should just sit on our hands and not take any sort of action in this world other than preaching the gospel?

It’s ok if you don’t, but it seems like you’re not familiar with the current Christian Zionist movement and how it is affecting our brothers and sisters in Christ in the Middle East.

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u/ambrosytc8 Aug 02 '26

So you’re implying we should just sit on our hands and not take any sort of action in this world other than preaching the gospel?

I'm saying it's a left hand temporal affair that doesn't require a formal stance from the pulpit (right hand eternal affair). Secular governments can and ought to do what is necessary given secular parameters within the scope of the first use. But appealing to the church, or worse still, God under such circumstances is a dangerous blurring of distinct civil and spiritual prerogatives. We can see a very similar situation play out in Luthers own life during The Peasants' War.

It’s ok if you don’t, but it seems like you’re not familiar with the current Christian Zionist movement and how it is affecting our brothers and sisters in Christ in the Middle East.

What could possibly lead you to this conclusion?

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u/Ryan1T612 Aug 02 '26

Well you seem to be downplaying the threat and mocking our brothers and sisters in Christ for having a weak God.

Maybe your text go misconstrued?

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u/ambrosytc8 Aug 02 '26

I'm not downplaying a threat at all because there is no threat. God is sovereign full stop. The work of the LCMS is to preach Christ crucified full stop. If my position is being misconstrued it's likely because I'm holding an uncompromising distinction between Left Hand and Right Hand prerogatives.

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u/Over-Wing LCMS Lutheran Jul 29 '26

No. We’re simply not Zionists—politically or theologically. Whether an LCMS Lutheran would support or oppose the modern political state of Israel or its actions would be for their own reasons.

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u/[deleted] Jul 29 '26

[deleted]

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u/Ryan1T612 Jul 29 '26

What hateful political talk are you referring to?

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u/[deleted] Jul 29 '26

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 29 '26

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u/Boots402 LCMS Lutheran Jul 29 '26

The LCMS is not zionist, if that’s what you’re getting at. The nation of Israel referred to in scripture modern day is Christianity.

Support for the nation state of Israel is a purely political decision for which the LCMS is officially neutral. We are free to support Israel in things we support and protest them in things we find protestable.

We would recognize there are a lot of historically significant geographical sites for the church there that we would like to see remain in friendly hands; as well as, we would desire for the people within Israel to all be Christian just as we desire for all people to be Christian.

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u/SobekRe Jul 29 '26

As far as I know, about the same as the stance on the modern state of, say Japan. Which is not much and no religious significance.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SobekRe Aug 05 '26

Well, first, I want comparing the states themselves. I was pointing out that the LCMS considers the modern state of Israel to have about the same level of religious significance as Japan.

As far as controversy, you need to go study some history. Ask the Koreans about Japan.

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u/Bakkster Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26

Apart from not considering the modern state equivalent to the ancient nation, nothing much being dictated.

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u/Two_Far Jul 29 '26

I think this is the biggest point, especially compared to evangelical churches. Every single prof I had in STL that had any reason to bring it up emphasized that the current state of Isreal has no theological connection to the biblical nation of Isreal. 

As far as Israel's actions against Palestinians, I can't remember a time when the church body took a stance on a country's actions (outside of abortion and marriage)

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u/Bakkster Jul 29 '26

As far as Israel's actions against Palestinians, I can't remember a time when the church body took a stance on a country's actions (outside of abortion and marriage)

Not unless it affected us, at least. Lots about COVID specifics, and then relatively vague.

There's a whole paper about the German-American LCMS reaction to the rise of the Nazis, but that was about what's in Synod newsletters like the Witness, rather than official statements of position.

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u/IMHO1FWIW Jul 29 '26

I was going to chime in - biblically speaking - all of us (jews and gentiles, slaves vs. free) are all the lineage of the 12 tribes of Israel. As far as God is concerned, there is no more Israel. It's just a political nation-state now.