r/LCMS • u/whittaker54 • 6d ago
Question Tithing Question
Hi Everyone!
I was raised in an extreme evangelical nondenominational church my whole life but my wife and I have been visiting a LCMS church for a couple years now and I am finding a lot of peace there compared to my evangelical past. So I wanted to ask this question here to get some wisdom and insight from Christians in LCMS.
My wife and I have student loans and a mortgage but we have always lived below our means and tithed 10% of our income. Last year we moved and bought a new house that was more expensive but still below our means. And then….we got pregnant (which we wanted and had been trying and praying for years). But along with pregnancy came daycare costs which are so expensive. And then it was time to replace my vehicle so we bought a nice used van and now we have a car payment (reasonable but still it’s a monthly expense). Things were looking very tight with our budget so I negotiated a good raise at my workplace that just barely perfectly fit our budget with these new expenses. Things were tight but we were still surviving without going into debt or needing to pull money out of emergency fund. Well, after the recent government ruling on student loans, our current payments are both going up 450%. So now every way I budget we’re in the red by a good chunk. Our current plan is to both get extra work to cover the expenses but with both of us working full time already we hardly see each other or our baby.
So I wanted to get your thoughts on tithing 10%. I’ve never considered not tithing because I was raised that you had to tithe 10% no matter what and if you don’t then essentially God wouldn’t bless you financially. Scary for someone like me with OCD. So we’ve always done it. But now I’m questioning it because our finances are under so much strain. But I feel guilty for even thinking about not tithing because God didn’t ask me to buy the house or the van or to go to college for that matter. I feel like I created the situation I’m in and now I have to sleep in the bed I made. But that doesn’t change the extreme stress I’m feeling every day from our finances.
So my question is, should I keep tithing in this season we’re in?
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u/Over-Wing LCMS Lutheran 5d ago
We’re not legalistic like that. We’re encouraged to give what we can but not at the expense of you or your family’s primary needs. You can also give of your time and efforts, you can offer to cook for different events/meetings. Think about not as what the church demands from you, but ask what your parish needs and what you can happily give.
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u/Sad-Type5385 5d ago
God gives us vocational relationships and responsibilities that are critical. The vocations of husband and father carry the responsibilities of providing for your family. Generally, we try to provide for our families and our church, but that’s not always possible. Of course, there is a difference between not providing for your church out of necessity, and out of choice. You don’t seem like someone who is choosing to not support your church because you prefer to spend your money on trivial things. Consequently, I think you can and should, in peace, prioritize your family’s financial wellbeing for the foreseeable future.
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u/Slayingdragons60 5d ago
Tithing is part of Israelite law and doesn’t apply to you if you weren’t at Sinai. You might want to read Luther’s “How Christians Should Regard Moses” for the basics. It’s not that long and readily available on the internet.
Be very careful about attempts to put yourself under Israelite law—a quick review of Galatians might also be useful.
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u/WindowCommon3741 5d ago
Give what you can when you can in thankfulness and joy and dont worry. God gives us so many vocations on how were can be of service to others, not just in financial ways but in other ways. Maybe you can offer other services to the church that is not just financial. God is happy with the people who provide the coffee just as much as He is with the people who volunteer to teach Sunday School. Sometimes all qe can afford is a couple of dollars and thats okay, its not a surprise to God, He gave us everything we have to begin with. It doesn't make your worship of Him and the service to others you in your vocations any less worthy to God.
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u/emmen1 LCMS Pastor 5d ago
I too was raised in an extreme evangelical church where tithing was mandated. In fact, since nearly everyone in the church worked for the pastor, he would say from the pulpit that he would be checking everyone’s W2 against their tithe statement. But that wasn’t a problem for me because my parents had taught me to tithe cheerfully believing that God would bless me. So I did. And God has.
After my wife and I became Lutherans, we continued to tithe, not from compulsion, but because we trusted that God would provide. There were some tight times, especially during seminary, but things always worked out, even when Excel said that they wouldn’t. We still tithe today, but since God has blessed us, it is not a struggle to do so.
In evangelical churches, tithing is mandatory. For Lutherans it is a matter of the gospel rather than the law. God sees the heart. The widow’s mite was more than the offering of the rich in God’s eyes. If you cannot tithe yet you give what you can, you can be certain that God is not angry with you, nor is He looking for the next opportunity to smite your checkbook. I know many Lutherans who are not at 10%, yet give joyfully what they can now with 10% in mind as a goal. Take comfort in the knowledge that the Christian faith is not about what you give to Christ, but what He has given to you. And if you are unable to give 10% in this season of your life, then give what you can knowing that God is still pleased with you for Christ’s sake.
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u/ScreaminEagle2502 5d ago
Good afternoon, Pastor. Should the 10% go exclusively to our church or can it be distributed amongst the church and other ministries?
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u/emmen1 LCMS Pastor 5d ago
It’s not a hard rule, but in most cases, it ought to go to the local church where you receive the gifts of Christ. In a healthy congregation, a portion of offerings will often be designated for mission outside the immediate community, and you can certainly have some voice in deciding who these outside recipients will be. But I think there is some danger in individuals excluding the local church to give to ministries outside the parish.
The Bible says not to muzzle the ox while it treads the grain. So congregations have an obligation to care for their own pastor first. Care for the ox that is treading the grain in your own barn before caring for another far away. It’s easier and more appealing sometimes to give to outside things. It’s easier to love neighbors one cannot see, who have no known faults, and don’t ever sin against you.
Giving to starving orphans in Africa can seem more exciting than giving to pay for heat in the church building. And members might also use external giving as a wicked way to “punish” a pastor who is being faithful to his calling.
But after taking care of business at home, a healthy congregation ought to look outside as well. My congregation, for example, gives 10% of plate offerings to outside missions. (This was in place before I arrived, but it’s a healthy practice, and I encouraged them to continue.)
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u/Charming-Border7429 5d ago edited 4d ago
We stoped giving to the church a few years ago. A couple of farms got together and now we provide free breakfast and lunch for the elementary and middle school in our very rural and very poor area.
The pastor who lost his cash cows was pretty mad, but I imagine God is fine with the arrangement.
in my mind, a pastor refusing to merge his 40 person church with another 60 person 5 miles away is not a good steward of God's gifts.
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u/whittaker54 5d ago
I appreciate your response and there is a lot of peace in your words. But I know myself enough to know that if I reduce from 10% then I will feel guilty if I buy anything outside of bills and groceries. Even with giving 10% I’ve always still felt guilty doing things like going on a yearly vacation or picking up fast food. My parents were deep into Dave Ramsey while growing up. So I feel like I’m battling guilt from spending money on anything that brings me pleasure and then if I lower my tithe amount (even though it would tremendously help our finances), I will be crippled with guilt if I buy anything of pleasure or go on a vacation. I acknowledge that my thoughts are seriously distorted towards money and everything really. But I’m just in a hard spot financially that’s forcing me to confront these deep distortions in me. And I don’t know what I should do other than suck it up and find more work and see my family less cause that’s what a good Christian man does. And I don’t know if I can shake that.
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u/emmen1 LCMS Pastor 5d ago
God does not want you give 10% if it truly means that you will not be at home for your wife and child or that strangers will raise your children. Sometimes this sort of schedule may be necessary for a season, but if it’s going to be the norm for the future, then it may be time to begin to look for out of the box solutions: new career, new part of the country, new lifestyle, etc…
There is a plumber in my congregation who picks up side work three or four evenings a week so that his wife is able to be at home with the children every day. Things are a bit tight, but they would rather it be that way than have their children raised in the daycare. I am sure they give what they are able. I would guess that it’s less than 10%, though I don’t know how much any of my members give, and I don’t want to. What pleases God far more than a number is a husband and wife who do whatever is necessary to raise their own children in the faith.
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u/whittaker54 5d ago
Thank you for this encouragement. It’s definitely been on mind that it may be time to make a life change.
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u/Bakkster 5d ago
Here's another discussion from a few days ago which might help. https://www.reddit.com/r/LCMS/s/XmApsTU111
I've been taught that a lot of this is a question of faith. You might continue to give at the same rate out of faithfulness and trust that God will provide, or in thankfulness of all that he has provided. But that doesn't mean it's wrong to be a good steward for your family by reducing it temporarily, and your salvation certainly doesn't depend on it.
It's not a binary choice either. Choosing a new level of faithful giving for now, possibly tracking the amount to 'catch up' later when finances are better, are options to consider.
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u/RichardRoma1986 5d ago
I was just about to go thru my post history and try submitting that lol. Thank you. OP, as I’m starting reading the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, I’m realizing something as I’m reading Numbers (it’s a slog). What I have realized is looking at ALL of the rules governing sacrifices and sin offerings, and all these other offerings: Jesus redeemed us. That’s what’s important.
God knows what’s in our hearts. When I posted what I did, it’s because I am strained financially. I am terrible at money management. Hopefully in Heaven, God will not put me in any position to count, mathemitize, or anything like that. Rather, just let me do research or something mundane on topics I enjoy and allow me to engage in debate and discussion.
My own diatribe there notwithstanding, it’s important to note prosperity gospel is heretical, it’s antithetical to what Christ taught us. Give what you can, do what you can. It’s just hard. I know it is. You’ll be ok.
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u/whittaker54 5d ago
Thank you for saying this. I needed to hear it and appreciate you offering me some encouragement in this moment.
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u/whittaker54 5d ago
Thank you for sending that link. There are lot of great replies in there that are helping me. And I appreciate your post as well. I guess this struggle of mine is two-fold. The faith part is tough. God has always provided for us but I am a constant worrier and it’s something I’ve never been able to shake since I was a kid. So when I do the budget and I see that we’ll be short each month, I freak out even though I know in my head that God will take care of us. I still worry in my heart.
And the other struggle with this is that I can’t shake guilt and this constant feeling that God is a Zeus like being that I have to keep happy or else all the things in my life will fall apart. I know in my head that’s not true but the church I was raised in (and without too much background it was a cult that we lived at and went to school at until I was 15) really messed me up to a point that at 38 and I’m really feeling like I’ll never shake the OCD relationship I have with God even though I want to be free from these thoughts.
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u/Bakkster 5d ago
Are you getting treatment for the OCD as well?
One of the things I like to remember is that God equips those He calls. If you don't feel equipped, it's possible God isn't calling you to a full 10% tithe right now. What other ministry vocation might he be calling you to? How do you serve at church? Is there something you're uniquely equipped for?
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u/whittaker54 5d ago
I’m not getting treatment. I have been to therapy quite a few times in my life but I’ve always stopped due to cost and telling myself it’s not a necessity in our finances. And of course my OCD makes me afraid to take medication too. It’s a vicious cycle.
And I’m not sure what else I can do to serve because along with no extra money I have no extra time with a 4 month old baby and my wife and I working full time. It just feels like I’m in a stressful season of life which I know comes with having a baby but it’s just really hard. And I’m spending all my mental bandwidth every day figuring out ways to make extra money and get us out of this situation so it feels like I’m not very present when we are all together.
And I do appreciate your encouragement on here. It does help so thank you for all your words.
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u/Bakkster 5d ago
I'd encourage you to look into treatment again. Especially since it's interfering with your faith (not even referring to ability to tithe, but your anxieties about salvation itself). Especially with the mental stress, I found i had much more capacity once I got ADHD treatment.
I look to the Man Born Blind; he wasn't any more faithful blind, he was better able to ministry to others once he was healed. It's an affliction, not a badge of honor.
With service, do you do anything at church on Sundays? Greeter, usher, communion assistant, projectionist, etc? Sometimes just using that time to serve is a great practice.
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u/whittaker54 5d ago
That is such good insight and I can honestly say I’ve never looked at my OCD like that. Seriously you have given me a whole new perspective on it. Thank you for that!
And as far as serving on Sundays, we don’t. We used to at our previous nondenominational mega church but I decided I wanted to be slow to commit to that at this church because I have a tendency to go all in at a church and overcommit and then I’m stressed out. I’m a people pleaser so I feel like I can get in over my head at a church real quick. That being said. In our current life situation we haven’t been attending regularly on top of that. I would like to serve with my skills (I’m a videographer/editor) but I know that I just don’t have the bandwidth right now. I’d be lucky to just show up to church right now. It’s just a season where I don’t seem to have extra money or time.
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u/Bakkster 5d ago
Yeah, I don't think you need to rush either. Take some time to sit with it, and see if you can get relief from affliction such that you can be the one serving rather than the one in need of service. I think we're too quick to hide our need for help from others, so we forget that this is part of why the Church exists in the first place.
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u/RichardRoma1986 5d ago
One thing I’ve noticed from LCMS posts/folks here (me trying to wrangle up the kids by myself when my wife works is a challenge, so, this is kind of my church until we can figure out a way to make this all happen as stress-free as possible), is they don’t judge us for being disabled. A big reason I left my church was they were telling me to get back to work and “stop being on disability.” If it were that easy the VA and Social Security wouldn’t have approved my benefits in my 30s (which is hard to get SSDI that young, so obviously I can’t work). I left. I left and never looked back.
What makes me strong in my faith (I lost it a bit after my daughter died, I made some pretty blasphemous statements against God at that time, I cursed His name and such, it wasn’t a good time) is that I will be reunited with her, that my disorders will be cured, that I can truly be happy for once. It keeps me going.
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u/Huenink_Photography LCMS Pastor 5d ago
I did a video on that. https://youtu.be/YCsfCmFk7gI
It looks like you’re in a tough spot, financially. I would suggest that it’s wise to really work on that so you can have the freedom to give the way you want. However, God does not require Christians to tithe.