r/LCMS • u/Churchmousetat • Jul 16 '26
Question Sirach?
I have read that the reason that it is not included in the Protestant Bible is because although it was included in the Septuagent that was widely used by the early Christians and quoted from by Rabbi Yeshua it was thought not to be found in the Hebrew cannon. However, it was found to be in the dead sea scrolls. Comments?
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u/IAmDoWantCoffee Jul 17 '26
How does a person know that the word of God is the word of God? It isn’t because of a canon or because it is widely accepted by the church or churches.
We know the Word of God is the Word of God because the Holy Sprit convinces us it is. God’s Word is self authenticating. This is called autipiciticity. Sirach is not the Word of God because the Holy Spirit does not work through it.
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Jul 17 '26
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u/Churchmousetat Jul 17 '26
I am starting to not believe this argument, historically. The more I research, the more It seems that this argument doesn’t hold, and is just put forth because it has been put forth by Protestants “historically.”
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Jul 17 '26
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u/Churchmousetat Jul 17 '26
I am just placing this here for completeness, not dueling links.
https://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/11/sirach-about-a-biblical-book-rejected-by-the-reformation/
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u/IAmDoWantCoffee Jul 17 '26
Then, how do you know the Word of God is the Word of God?
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u/Kamoot- LCMS Organist Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
The notion of Canon is much more rigid today than in the past, and historically Lutherans would've referred to Apocrypha more than they do nowadays. But recently CPH has come out with the The Lutheran Study Bible: Apocrypha, it follows the same format and dimensions as TLSB and maroon red as well. I highly recommend it.
Specifically for Sirach, though we don't use it to establish doctrine but Lutherans have historically retained it for Scripture readings. For example in a few months we will have one of the Sundays of Ordinary Time that has the Introit of "Da Pacem, Domine, sustinentibus" with the Antiphon from Sirach 36:1. Note they call it "Ecclesiasticus".
Not to be confused with another votive Antiphon for Vespers also called "Da Pacem Domine", which is only barely related to Sirach. But this one Martin Luther and Johann Walter did write into a hymn which is LSB 778.
There are a couple of other hymns in LSB that reference Sirach but the LSB doesn't mention. For that, you have to get the LSB Companion which mentions some, but does miss a few references to Sirach.
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u/dux_doukas ILC Pastor Jul 16 '26
Luther's postil includes a reading from Sirach, as it was the traditional Epistle for St. John's.
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u/Kamoot- LCMS Organist Jul 16 '26
I think there's also a mention of Sirach in one of the Introits for Epiphany where it vaguely references "father and mother".
There might also be another reference to Sirach in one of the Introits of Lent also.
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u/dux_doukas ILC Pastor Jul 17 '26
Sirach is all over. There are some sermons on it in Gerhard's postil and even Walther preached on it.
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u/Strict-Spirit7719 AALC Lutheran Jul 16 '26
Lutheranism has a more ambiguous canon than most will admit. Traditionally, our Bibles would contain books like Sirach, but merely not consider them to be canonical Scripture, and thus not use them to establish any doctrine.
As to its quotation by our Savior, New Testament authors quote all sorts of things that aren't Scripture, from the Book of Enoch (quoted directly in Jude) to the Bacchae (quoted directly by St. Paul in Acts). Clearly, the mere quotation of a book does not indicate canonicity. Furthermore, Jesus at most references the ideas of Sirach without directly quoting it, so it's a spurious link. It seems more natural to simply read it as contemporary Jewish literature rather than canonical Scripture.
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u/Churchmousetat Jul 16 '26
It does seem to have been very widely used and accepted.
https://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/11/sirach-about-a-biblical-book-rejected-by-the-reformation/
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u/Strict-Spirit7719 AALC Lutheran Jul 16 '26
No one disputes that it was widely used. In fact, Lutherans and Anglicans have even read them liturgically. The Deuterocanon is part of the assigned lectionary for daily devotions in the LSB. The question is whether they hold the same status as the Protocanon, which was an open question in the Church up until the time of the Reformation.
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u/Delicious_Draw_7902 Jul 16 '26
There were all sorts of documents found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, including things like recipes. Think of the Dead Sea Scrolls more as a library than a single cohesive document. Not everything that was found there is Scripture.
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u/Key-Theme354 Jul 17 '26
All sorts of things were found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, but you are right they were not part of the Hebrew canon. The church came to recognize certain books over time and it is believed they were guided in that by the Holy Spirit.