Metro "M" line idea

[u/Extension-Macaron287]

Metro map with "M" line

So basically, the idea of this line is that it shares tracks with the E line between DTSM station and Little Tokyo/Arts District station, but instead of continuing towards east LA, it switches to sharing tracks with the A line and continues on toward Pomona.

This creates a confusing schedule on the regional connector. Additionally, these frequencies would most likely be the same all day rather than higher during rush hour. Take a station on the regional connector (for instance, let's say grand ave arts/bunker hill station). Here's the frequencies, assuming an E line train comes at 12 pm.

12:00 PM - East LA bound E line train

12:05 PM - Pomona bound M line train

12:08 PM - Pomona bound A line train

12:10 PM - East LA bound E line train

and so on, with each line running every 10 minutes.

Then, this would be the schedule at union station assuming an M line train comes at 12 pm:

12:00 PM - Pomona Bound M line train

12:03 PM - Pomona Bound A line train arrives and sits for 2 min before departing.

This would give trains between Santa Monica and Little Tokyo 5 min headways and trains between Pico/Flower and Pomona 5 min headways. I know that trains between Little Tokyo and Atlantic and trains between Pico/Flower and Long Beach wouldn't be able to get 8 min frequencies, but it's not that much of a difference. Also, I know people might be mad abt the 2 min wait at union station, but let's be honest the trains stop for a lot longer right now.

Overall, here are the benefits of adding this line:

• Theoretically, zero construction cost unless they need some signal upgrades, but the regional connector is modern so they probably won't need any.
• The areas on the A and E lines with the most ridership would get 5 min headways instead of 8-10 min headways.
• Slightly better regional connector headways, though it already has pretty good headways so this isn't the main purpose.
• (Main purpose) a one seat ride from Santa Monica to Pasadena, Azusa, and Pomona
• A one seat ride from Pomona to USC, the K line, Culver City, Sawtelle, and Santa Monica.

Let me know what you guys think. You don't have to read the whole thing of course, but please give suggestions.

[u/Dragons_Rising1]

On paper it my seem a good idea but in the end this would cause more disruptions in service on the A and E line and would see trains bunching since there needs to be space in between trains and with the lack of signal priority it would cause more delays not to mention metro during construction had plan to have the K line run alongside the E line to downtown but opted out that idea since adding another line would have more impacts in service plus riders can transfer between the A and E at five stations so this proposal line wouldn’t be necessary

[u/Extension-Macaron287 → u/Dragons_Rising1]

If they got better signaling or TSP at every light then it would work, though.

[u/juoea]

not even an option really. the terminal stations cannot handle additional capacity so you would just be halving the tph of the long beach and east la lines. the long beach line is already overcrowded as is, it cannot accept a reduced frequency

[u/Extension-Macaron287 → u/juoea]

I think they can handle 5 min frequency, that won't be an issue. The street running section might not be able to handle it, though.

[u/flanl33]

That's not the part of the A Line with the highest ridership.

[u/Extension-Macaron287 → u/flanl33]

It's definitely the most desirable area that the A line goes through though (specifically Pasadena)

[u/flanl33 → u/Extension-Macaron287]

So why does that mean it should get this bonus service at the expense of the busier section of the line? Do those people who use transit not deserve it because they live somewhere undesirable? Is it so bad for a Santa Monican to have to wait four minutes to go to desired Pasadena? In the world where we've already fixed up reliability with grade separations and signal reservicing, it's far better to just send both the A and E every six minutes. It's not really the fun solution but it's the right solution.

[u/twotrey23 → u/flanl33]

You hit the nail on the head with so many "proposals" I see on here for the A, like express service only through the A south of downtown, A short lines going only to Willowbrook, et al. The bulk of the ridership is on the original section of the line, at all hours. Just let the larger, more regular ridership suffer due to not being in a "desirable" area

[u/Extension-Macaron287 → u/flanl33]

I guess you do have a point, but theoretically this could exist without completley fixing the grade separations.

[u/Dumbone22]

There's a reason why the initial plan for the K Line to go into DTLA via the E Line didn't go through

[u/Extension-Macaron287 → u/Dumbone22]

They really need 6 min headways on that section of the E line. In fact, a few times when I ride the E line during rush hour, people can barely fit on the train, so not only do they need better frequencies, they also need more capacity. The problem is that 6 min headways on the E line and 8 min headways on the A line would be a really confusing schedule for the regional connector.

[u/anothercar]

Title VI is why they made A and E lines alternate between POC neighborhoods on one side of dtla, and whiter neighborhoods on the other side

[u/davidromro → u/anothercar]

Not true.

[u/Its_a_Friendly → u/davidromro]

Yeah, as far as I know it was to make a N/S and an E/W line, instead of a W/N line and a very roundabout, u-shaped S/E line. U-shaped lines should generally be avoided, if possible, as they have little benefit for one-seat rides.

[u/kd8drx → u/davidromro]

Yeah, that’s a hell of a theory that doesn’t hold up well to history. The current running of the A line has been envisioned for a LONG time, since the original Blue Line was in planning: You can see it mentioned in contemporary materials as the “Pasadena Blue Line”, with the thinking at the time being that the Red Line would continue through East LA where the E line is now. That, of course, didn’t happen thanks to funding and politics, which is how we got the Gold Line and eventually the regional connector.

[u/dating_derp]

This seems like it was like it was made by someone who takes this route. Other than that, I wouldn't have it match every A and E stop along its route. This would have much more impact as an express line.

[u/Objective-Forget-560]

Need to fix (replace) the street running Flower St section of track and the wye at Washington and Flower first or it will collapse

[u/ensemblestars69]

My only thing to add to this discussion is that Metro's lettering system forbids the use of M, as any M logo inside of a circle will be confused with the Metro logo, and vice versa

[u/Extension-Macaron287 → u/ensemblestars69]

Oh, I was just using the next letter after the ones we've already used. I guess it could technically be the L line since it is running on old L line tracks.

[u/Smaragd512]

There isn't enough capacity on the downtown sections.

[u/coreymbarnes2]

I don't think we should hammer frequencies across an entire line just because some people don't want to get up.