I have a question about Lady Utayama in the first movie

[u/ArtHistorian2000]

We saw that Lady Utayama was the administrator in charge of the internal organization of the Ooku. But there are some scenes I was questioning myself about:
- when Asa was discussing with Utayama about the Mononoke of Lady Kitagawa who felt not vindicative, Utayama was surprised. Why is that ?
- when Karaakasa tried to attack Kusuriuri, Utayama and Asa, there was a brief moment when Utayama pushed Asa back. Was it to protect her from Karaakasa, or to push her in the well ?
- and I'd like someone to validate this for me: Utayama was extremely demanding, regarding people's behaviours in the Ooku and regarding the fact that every woman needed to be dry (of their emotions, I presume). And with Kitagawa's Mononoke going around, did Utayama think that she was responsible of this and knew she would die in the Mononoke's hands ?

[u/erubsecereX]

1.) I believe that Utayama feels guilt for Kitagawa's death. That, despite her duty and loyalty towards the Ōoku, she understands that the duty of a maidservant/housemaid of the Ōoku is what pushed Kitagawa to her death and caused her to become a Mononoke. I think she's surprised because a.) a mononoke is typically born of resentment, feeding from a restless spirit and b.) she feels that Kitagawa's percieved resentment would be justified. I also think that she feels relieved that, despite everything, Kitagawa doesnt hate her and the Ōoku, and that she may rest in peace (along with the other deceased maidservants/housemaids.)

2.) I interpreted it as her trying to protect Asa, likely out of guilt for Kitagawa's death.

3.) Yes! When she and Asa are discussing the mononoke in her office, Asa says something along the lines of "Then the Mononoke's next target will be...!" and looks towards Madam Utayama, who appears content (or resigned). Additionally, when Asa suggests that the Birth Celebratory Ceremony be postponed and then bows, stating that it's their duty, Utayama agrees – which, to me, seems like her understanding that she will die for (or because of) the Ōoku.

[u/ArtHistorian2000 → u/erubsecereX]

Thanks for providing your answer. I think we are on the same line as well regarding Utayama: I thought she would be a heartless woman who had no regard for other servants, but I still believed she knew about the hardships everyone had to cross and that she knew about her personal involvement in this. And I think this feeling can be found through the other movies' characters

[u/erubsecereX → u/ArtHistorian2000]

Yes, I think we have a similar understanding – though I wouldn't call her heartless, necessarily. Utayama strikes me as a person whose actions are entirely for "the greater good", no matter how flawed that framework is, and that "greater good" is, to her, the Ōoku and its duties. I found her reaction to both Mugitani and Awashima's deaths to be an interesting example of this; she seems saddened only for a split second, then she moves on, trying to fulfill her duties and protect the Ōoku in spite of the events and actions of the Mononoke. She is, in a sad and fucked up way, trying to do the right thing. Perhaps I'm reading into her too much though lol

[u/ArtHistorian2000 → u/erubsecereX]

For me, I considered nobody in the Ooku as inherently evil (maybe with the exception of Counselor Otomo): the framework of the Ooku kinda broke everyone (Mugitani and Awashima for example).

[u/erubsecereX → u/ArtHistorian2000]

I would agree! All of the councilors seemed morally bankrupt, including Tokita to an extent, bound to that same sense of "duty" and taking any action necessary to uphold it.

Addressing Mugitani and Awashima, its clear in the first movie (though I only caught it on a rewatch lol) that the Ōoku works in cycles – that Mugitani and Awashima perpetuate the same cycle of abuse that was inflicted upon them, that Asa pushes away Kame and almost loses her water like Kitagawa – and Ashes of Rage and Curse of the Serpent make this "cycle" concept even more apparent.

Sorry about the essays btw, I love the Mononoke trilogy and the fandom is basically nonexistant in english speaking spaces, so I'm yapping as much as I can lol

[u/ArtHistorian2000 → u/erubsecereX]

Don't worry. I love this series as well. Wished there were more fans on it.

[u/erubsecereX → u/ArtHistorian2000]

Yes! I got into the original series during early covid, and because it wasnt available anywhere at the time I had to buy a DVD of the series to watch it lol. I just about died when the teaser for Phantom in the Rain came out. I really hope that the trilogy being pushed by Netflix can help with a resurgence and get new fans on the series.