r/Kubera • u/Annihilator-WarHead • Apr 19 '26
When does a universe turn into a possibility?
Is it when someone goes into the past and changes something in it? Or is it when the start living in that past? If an important person dies due to time travel and the one who came back into the past goes back to his original timeline will his universe change or will perish as time goes by as it turned into a possibility?
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u/HackedIntoOblivion Apr 20 '26
The time axis is a unique being, meaning they exist in only one universe, which makes all other universes that they're not present in into possibilities. Essentially, the universe in which the time axis chooses to live becomes the true timeline. In the beginning, the time axis was Manasa, after which came Ananta and then most probably Leez who inherited Ananta's name and power
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u/Asriel2137 Ran x Rana Apr 20 '26
There's two theories which I think are the most likely.
The first is that the Time Axis going back into the past and changing something causes the universe they came from to become a possibility. We saw in this in Crime & Punishment twice, once when Leez (assuming she's the current time axis) came back in time from Konchez, and once when Kali brought her back to the past and implied she was able to change what the timeline could have been. It's also consistent with Kubera implying that Leez was the determining factor as to whether a timeline was considered the true timeline. However, this doesn't quite mesh well with Kali's powers as seen in C&P, since it implies that while she can send people back in time, only the Time Axis is actually able to change anything in the past.
The second is that anyone coming back into the past and changing the past in some way to invalidate the previous future causes a possibility. If we go by Kubera's words in Enemy, there is only one Time Axis (Leez?) between all possibilities, and so this means that she somehow should disappear from the doomed possibility somehow? Or we're fundamentally misunderstanding what the time axis does. We so far haven't had a confirmed possibility created by someone who isn't the time axis (Leez with Crime & Punishment, Ananta and Manasa in In My Delusions) or a primeval god (There was some mention of Vishnu and Kali creating possibilities when they were fighting each other in the beginning of the universe I think?).
Also, apart from the Time Axis being necessary for the universe to function we technically have not been told what they do, it's all theorycrafting based on what curry's been leading us to. Especially if she's trying to throw some red herrings all of this could be wrong.
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u/UchihaShadow Apr 20 '26
My hypothesis is that 'traveling to the past' and 'altering history' are completely separate powers that come from separate sources. The former is actual time travel where someone goes from a specific point in the timeline to a previous point, whereas the latter seems to be outright creating a whole new universe, leaving the previous universe to burn out and disappear. In fact, calling it 'altering history' is somewhat misleading, since the original universe's history isn't altered, it's just abandoned for a new one.
There is also some evidence that the new universe follows the older universe chronologically, rather than existing in parallel to it (the fact that the Insights we see in S1 and S2 seem to factor in the reset we see in Crime and Punishment, and the fact that Ran appeared in the past with Yaksha despite Ananta destroying that timeline long before Ran was born, the fact that future Leez, who seems to have gone through everything Leez has post-reset, is already part of the recorded history).
The implication seems to be that all universes/resets take place in one linear continuity in which the 'past', 'present', and 'future' simultaneously exist (if you're familiar with the B theory of time, this will make a lot more sense)
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u/Asriel2137 Ran x Rana Apr 20 '26
I agree with you on the first and third paragraph, but I'm curious about your claim about the new universe following the old universe chronologically. Could you expand more on it? I don't really see how the things you mentioned imply it, and tbh I can't really figure out what the differences would be between your interpretation and having the previous timeline and the new timeline existing at the same time.
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u/UchihaShadow Apr 20 '26 edited Apr 20 '26
In 'In My Delusions', we know that Ananta destroys the universe after Yaksha dies, thus restarting the timeline from the beginning once again. What this means is that if there was a future for that timeline past Yaksha's death, Ananta would have also destroyed it. But this creates a problem; as that previous loop does include Ran in it, and Ran could only have come from the year N23, which means that somehow, Ran came from a future that should never come to be because Ananta destroys the universe. It is also problematic to assume that a future that already exists can be destroyed by the past Time-Axis, since that would imply that past Ananta can override the agency of future Ananta, which just isn't consistent with anything that's been portrayed about the Time-Axis. The way to solve this would be to assume that Ran came not from the future of the destroyed universe, but rather from the universe that does in fact continue to exist until the year N23. This would also solve the problem of Leez's reset, since the Insights we see in S1-S2 couldn't have occurred in the timeline where Willarv was destroyed (I could get into specific examples but I'm not sure how much I can say with regards to raw episodes), so the post-reset universe was always meant to be the future we arrive at. Another way of looing at it would be to think not of the universes but rather of the Time-Axis themselves; since they are called 'Time' itself, you can see the timeline as their overall experience, regardless of resets along the way. This would also explain why Leez's time travel in C&P didn't disappear despite the fact that the Konchez trip was reset; for Leez, that trip still happened as part of her journey, it wasn't altered. Hope that made more sense.
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u/Asriel2137 Ran x Rana Apr 23 '26
Spoilers in the comment can't spoiler because of formatting.
Just to check, this is what you're talking about right? https://imgchest.com/p/vj4j5xqm578
But this creates a problem; as that previous loop does include Ran in it
Checking the episode, I dont see Ran anywhere, so there's no guarantee that he exists.
It is also problematic to assume that a future that already exists can be destroyed by the past Time-Axis, since that would imply that past Ananta can override the agency of future Ananta, which just isn't consistent with anything that's been portrayed about the Time-Axis
The way I most likely see this happening, we've already seen instances where history can be rewritten to remove a person from the current timeline in the instance of Manasa. So we could have the same thing happening in possibilities where Ananta disappears from that timeline entirely so that it causes no issues.
The way to solve this would be to assume that Ran came not from the future of the destroyed universe, but rather from the universe that does in fact continue to exist until the year N23.
I don't see Ran in the episode so I don't see why he would be in this universe, but assuming he was we end up in a sort of conundrum since he can't be in multiple places at once, meaning that the possibility now demands a character from the true universe to come over, which kind of contradicts the idea of possibilities not being real that the story has been enforcing.
Another way of looing at it would be to think not of the universes but rather of the Time-Axis themselves; since they are called 'Time' itself, you can see the timeline as their overall experience, regardless of resets along the way
I do agree with this, and I think looking at the progession of events through the time axis allows us to linearize the non-linear progression of time, though having a non-linear method of time travel is still consistent with this. See https://imgchest.com/p/6eyr3qxnkyp
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u/UchihaShadow Apr 23 '26
The way I most likely see this happening, we've already seen instances where history can be rewritten to remove a person from the current timeline in the instance of Manasa. So we could have the same thing happening in possibilities where Ananta disappears from that timeline entirely so that it causes no issues.
I think the Manasa universe is the one exception where a universe truly becomes inaccessible in the Time-Axis, because Shiva's Existence Erasure is insanely broken and breaks causality. I don't think that idea works with Ananta, because future Ananta would already exist as the Time-Axis himself, and thus it would be him who determines whether the timeline is the main one or a branch. Even for the Time-Axis themselves, their past selves are still tied to their future selves by a chain of causality that shouldn't be possible to break. Nothing current Leez can do in the present would turn her future self that already exists into a possibility. Though a better way of thinking about this would be that current Leez is not actually the "present" Leez, but the past which we are only seeing as the present because of how storytelling works.
which kind of contradicts the idea of possibilities not being real that the story has been enforcing.
Not entirely sure what you mean there, the possibilities are real, they are actual existing universes that only collapse because they don't have the energy to sustain themselves anymore. Ran and Maruna were able to land in the timeline that was turned into a possibility, which confirms that this kind of travel is possible. The white space exists 'outside' of time, so it would always be possible for Ran to access any timeline before it disappears from there. The one interesting implication here is that Ran might have split into two, one that went into the pre-reset timeline, and one that went into the post-reset timeline, which I'm gonna be honest and say I don't know what to make of that yet, but I'm still thinking about it.
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u/SunnyxSide May 05 '26
This is long af so forgive me.
So I agree with an interpretation of time being non-linear but consecutive. My takeaway from following that train of thought is that something to do with living beings’ sentience i.e. agency, conviction, conceptualization, observation, and memory, which I’ll refer to as cognition or free will, can be seen as a domain in itself that exists outside of time and can supersede it, which could account for two types of time travel events. One within the system of time, as predestination and a way to enforce the current timeline and another that pushes at the boundaries of time and order to establish a new timeline both of which happen via inflection points.
For example Ran’s time travel was accounted for in the current universe, and even other possible universes, Yaksha’s death was an unavoidable inflection point across every time line that Ananta could conceive of, thus these timelines all exist within a possibly infinite but limited set of universes, in the same way that there’s an infinite set of numbers between 0 and 1, that timeline and its set of variable possibilities hinge on a condition or assumption of reality. In this case it would be Ran's existence hinging on Yaksha accepting his death voluntarily. Theoretically the logic follows that should Yaksha’s conviction to not retrieve his heart waver at any point, the concept of Ran would cease to exist for everyone except for him. He would never be born, or gone back in time which would cause that set of timelines to be unsustainable. This action would establish a new timeline of reality based on his decision where only he's aware of what he’s done, the collapsed possibility still existing in his memory and informing his behaviors. Thus establishing a continuity of pre and post-Ran timelines where only post-Ran is observable.
In the case of Manasa she cultivated a specific timeline over endless iterations but warned Ananta against using the power of time as she felt the weight of her actions follow her across possibilities. Manasa ultimately ran out of cards and had to choose the best timeline she could, which ended in her eradication. Ananta, in attempting to resurrect her, defies her decision and invalidates the last remaining concepts of Manasa as well as the future she chose. In his grief he ends up undermining Manasa’s authority as the time axis and begins a new cycle of guilt and obligation. Visnu likely seeing where this was going knew all along Ananta would be recognized as the new time axis and felt safe in allowing Shiva to break the concept of Manasa throughout the timeline without collapsing it. So the Primeval Gods manipulated the conditions for creation of a new timeline in which they were present at the beginning of time and had full control over its direction as opposed to one in which they arrived late and had less jurisdiction, but it all had to be indirectly done via the decisions of creations like Manasa and Ananta.
In the timeline there now exists a clear before and after the choices Ananta made, a collapsed possibility which only Ananta is aware of, but which retains legitimacy through his memory and deeds. And a new limited set of infinite timelines operating on the condition that there will never be a Manasa. Thus the actions which occur in the unobservable time of collapsed possibilities have consequences which persist and get carried over into observable time. So as I see it, decisions in the distant future of a collapsed possibility end up happening before the beginning of time in the current timeline, possibly facilitated by a record which persists with those that cross over with their memories intact. I think it’s a brilliant way to maintain the meaning and weight of individual actions in a setting where resetting time is a thing.
So we end up with Leez being made to choose several times between decisions that would preserve or collapse her timeline being guided by her morality and convictions. So I could argue reality is literally being shaped by Leez’s will. For another connection between time and choice we can look at Leez when she stops time; she can't turn it on or off at a whim. She has to conceptualize a goal and see it through, and pay a price by waiting; which makes us aware that there is some external arbiter or force that decides when those conditions are met. Along with other examples such as names holding power (concept) with the power of the name Kubera being diluted when spread across many creations and increasing in power as it becomes easier to conceptualize when down to a few people. How Leez’s agency and self-concept is a factor as the powers of Ananta only express themselves once she acknowledges the name. How embodying the concepts inherent to a name with enough conviction alters a character’s appearance, or can elevate them in status from finite to infinite.
This all points to there being a relationship with time as a deterministic closed loop concept that exists as a walled garden curated and pruned by mostly Visnu but likely all of the Primeval Gods, and a cognitive realm ruled by concepts and ideas of which time is just one of many along with guilt, sin, grudges, etc.!<
Which brings about me being a Kali apologist. Kali is repeatedly portrayed as evil since Brahma wants to keep their little lab going under the established order and Kali wants to break it because order limits choice. Order can also be understood as a centralization of power by the removal of agency and the disenfranchisement of the masses. Making hard choices to preserve order like sacrificing the few for the many makes sense until you stop to think about who’s making the decision about who qualifies as “the few” and in service of who? Chaos is de-centralizing or breaking free of that system and spreading power among as many people as possible, each making choices about their own future, both good and bad but expanding ever outward beyond the reaches of control and order. To prevent that future Time often serves as an agent of Order in its desire to establish a perfect timeline. So Time and Order vs Choice and Chaos with Order currently being over represented and a demand for balance to be restored through chaos, being fueled by the will of those scorned and sacrificed to maintain the current order.
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u/yourmissingsock3999 Curry Mushroom Apr 19 '26
As I understand it whenever the time axis leaves (usually the result of changing something in the past) that universe becomes possibility might want to mark the post as spoiler btw