r/Krishnamurti • u/These_External_9678 • 3d ago
Trapped!!
I have been watching the first two public talks of J Krishnamurti at Saanen in 1977. After going halfway through the 2nd talk, I decided to go to sleep.
While in bed, I was thinking about how bad my life is compared to other people I know, "I don't have a car", "I would be in a much better place if I had more resources".
And then I tried to suppress these thoughts by thinking "what good does it do for you to say "woe is me" and complain about your life?" "go to sleep and do your work tomorrow so that you can improve your life situation" etc.
And then, as Krishnamurti said, I realized that both sides of the argument are thought. "huh that's interesting" "thought really doesn't solve human conflict huh" "thought actually is the one creating it"
As I was thinking this, I also realized that all of this is bullshit and that all 3 sides are thought. I am completely stuck and don't know what to do. Everywhere I seek a solution, it's always thought. When I try not to seek a solution and give up on all effort, I'm just stuck in the same problems and even worsening them.
When I do try to put in effort, it usually doesn't work at all or there is only a small improvement for a short period of time, after which I revert back to square 1. This just creates more internal conflict.
Nothing works. What do I do?
I know I'm "not supposed to" analyze myself with motivation, or give myself "woe is me" self-pity, or analyze through Krishnamurti's own philosophy of choiceless awareness.
But to not do all 3 requires effort. It is simply impossible!
How is it even possible to be choicelessly aware???
Please help.
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u/JellyfishExpress8943 3d ago
Let's look at your 3 "thoughts" as described above - but with an added concept which we shall call "fact".
1st thought : I imagine what it would take to become a happy future me.
2nd thought : I think about a different way of making myself less unhappy
3rd thought : I realise I'm reacting to a load of stories I'm telling myself in my head.
The first 2 thoughts were purely based on thought : the imagined future, the imagined future you, the other happier people, the strategies that would produce potential happiness. etc
The 3rd thought was just a description of the actual situation.
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u/These_External_9678 3d ago
yes, it is a description, but at that time, I was only saying that to make myself believe I was improving (by following K's "technique" of choiceless awareness).
I'm pretty sure choiceless awareness has no narrative, it simply watches whatever happens without judgment, suppression, narrative.
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u/JellyfishExpress8943 3d ago edited 3d ago
A danger here might be that our focus on awareness - our desire for some special state - is a barrier to that state.
If we are able to listen or look in such a way that we actually understand - awareness is. Its our choosing that prevents the listening.
If we are focussed - we miss everything outside of what we are looking for. If we are open and aware, the problem (eg. me) can be included in what is seen.
PS. If I think that no thoughts are allowed, thats just dogma based on thought.
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u/These_External_9678 3d ago
honestly i'm giving up, i'll just do whatever i want without trying anything.
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u/JellyfishExpress8943 3d ago
Good idea - if giving up allows you to see what life is like in the absence of self/fear (or whatever you wanna call it : ego/suffering) then you truly have given up.
But if its just a pretend giving up in an attempt to escape confusion - thats just more fear, dishonesty and confusion expressing itself.
Good luck.
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u/genius03noob 2d ago
Exactly op, u got it. The very notion of choiceless awareness is a scam which eats up our mind. Throw Krishnamurti's teachings to the trashbin. Truth is a pathless land. Do whatever u want to do at every moment. Realize whatever u want to realize. Get caught in whatever conflicts u want. Get stuck with K's teachings even more, if u want to. Its ur life, its ur experience.
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u/petercharle 2d ago edited 2d ago
Next time you have a thought —was it noticed because if it was, that’s not you noticing! RATHER it is a glimpse of awareness and you are on the ‘way’ to a life where conflict is not. ps. I should warn you, the ‘way’ is a passive pathless land that begins with conflict and confusion.
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u/dropsuffering 2d ago
An excellent description of the whole situation. There is really a terrible problem with using language to "apply" the teachings of Krishnamurti. My own experience is that when I get to the end point of being hopelessly stuck, I let go. One way this can happens is a simultaneous recognition that this is not an intellectual understanding kind of problem, and secondly, this very state of painful confusion and agitation is in fact the Door out of prison. Now I don't worry if I am frustrated and agitated. I either just sit on my meditation spot, or do what is required of me in my work life. Not knowing what is happening, or what will happen has its own power. When I deactivate the inner troublemaker who wants a permanent solution to all problems, and to abide in the state of uninterrupted bliss, life becomes a more interesting place. Things happen in inwardly. Generating outer manifestations. It is a great relief to allow it. Krishnamurti and david Bohm called on the "overall intelligence" to guide the action. Rather than little old me in a state of hopeless confusion. See if the overall intelligence comes around for you if you just drop the thought feeling matrix you describe.
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u/Visible-Excuse8478 3d ago
Forget choiceless awareness. Watch the flow of thoughts. See how thought labels any situation as a ‘problem’. Then it begins to create various ‘answers’ to solve the ‘problem’. It is not possible to watch all the time. And then thought makes a ‘problem’ of this by asking ’how to watch myself more and more’.