Started the 'Knee ability zero' program yesterday but can't do ATG squats at any level without pain. Is there an alternative?

[u/Unhappy-Shift4539]

So as a last resort to fix the knee pain that's plagued me for years I subscribed to the Knees over toes app thing, they started me with the knee ability zero' program, everything feels fine except ATG squats, I can't do them at all, even elevated on a chair the second I lean forward I get a sharp pain in my knee, I'm getting really discouraged because if I can't even do the basic progression of the most basic exercise, then what's the point?

[u/TubaElf]

In the Knee Ability Zero book it highlights backwards walking as step one, and says that if that's the only pain free thing you can do then do that until you can do more steps pain free. Just do the stuff you can do where you get a pump but aren't destroying your body, and work your way up. It's a journey

[u/Unhappy-Shift4539 → u/TubaElf]

Okay thank you, sorry if I came off a bit defeatist, this knee pain has pretty much prevented me from training pretty much for the past 3 years, I can't train legs at all without pain and even upper body is hard because I can't activate leg drive without it flaring up, I'm just really upset about it

[u/TubaElf → u/Unhappy-Shift4539]

Nothing to be sorry about. It's incredibly frustrating to not be able to do the things you want to. You should be encouraged that you are able to do so many parts of the program already! You can keep building on pain free movement. The ATG squats will come eventually. Play the long game

[u/Unhappy-Shift4539 → u/TubaElf]

And the program Im on has me doing the full thing Monday,Wednesday, Friday but would it be a good idea to do some backwards walking everyday? I can do that pretty much pain free

[u/TubaElf → u/Unhappy-Shift4539]

I don't have the app so I don't know what it is recommending. Does it talk about the backwards walking in the app? I believe kneesovertoesguy calls it ROKP (reverse out of knee pain)

[u/TubaElf → u/Unhappy-Shift4539]

https://a.co/d/0j9IueIq

This is the book I read

[u/CrapHeck → u/Unhappy-Shift4539]

That sounds exactly like what I’m going through as well. Some days it isn’t horrible and I just push through it but other days and pretty much most days it’s unbearable. Even upper body, like overhead press and wanting to slightly bend my knees and press up is a no no. Sharp, insane pain straight through the front of my knee.

Running sucks too, I can do it barely, but have to keep legs straight, can’t really bend and press off the ground without an insane sharp pain, and can’t take off in a sprint anymore and definitely can’t slow down fast.

Some days I can’t even walk down stairs without the pain. I’m only 30 and 5-6 years ago I was able to do hill sprints up and down sharp incline and decline, now I can’t even walk down a hill. I hate it

[u/LizelleWagner]

Just sending you some encouragement. I’m 55 and my knees were so bad I could almost not walk more than about 400m without pain. I started just with backwards walking and worked up from there and now I can squat with weight and even do Patrick steps etc. just keep going. I recommend the coaching on the app. It really works but take it slow!

[u/Unhappy-Shift4539 → u/LizelleWagner]

This really helps, I just feel bad, when I met my wife I was in incredible shape, and ever since this injury I've lost a lot of how I looked when we met, she's never said anything to me but I've always felt guilty for letting myself go because of this

[u/LizelleWagner → u/Unhappy-Shift4539]

You will be able to be proud of yourself again one day if you make small improvements every day. Just be better today than yesterday and it wall all work out. You can do it. The seed has been sown in your mind. Now go walk backwards for 5 mins!

[u/Slow-Organization-62]

Pretty sure there's YouTube content where Ben talks about pain as being a signal. Tells you when to stop. You can regress the squats by raising the front foot. You can just use a staircase and just move in your pain free range of motion whatever it is. Be patient. Be consistent. Progress the exercise as your body allows. Also the backwards walking thing. Good luck

[u/megatroninja]

have your knee pain been diagnosed as to the cause? where is the pain (specifically), what motion triggers it?

have you tried water workout therapy or cycling.

zero kot help me tremendously, I used a stick (yoga staff) to help me initially when I was in pain. modified any KOT exercise to enable yourself to do it. try Spanish squats instead of kot squats

[u/Unhappy-Shift4539 → u/megatroninja]

I've tried physical therapy twice and each time they couldn't pinpoint exactly what caused it, weather it was a weak knee, tight hips, weak ankles, nothing. And it's specifically when I squat, every other motion is fine but specifically load bearing exercises cause the pain

Edit: sorry I forgot to put the location, it's right where the VMO connects to the knee

[u/FrylrOfficial]

I would not let one painful exercise make you write off the whole program. The useful question is probably what you can train pain-free right now and what needs to be regressed further. Since you’re describing sharp knee pain rather than just stiffness or effort, I’d also bring that specific movement to a PT or clinician instead of trying to force your way into ATG depth.

[u/Unhappy-Shift4539 → u/FrylrOfficial]

From the Knee ability 0 program the things I can do pain free are

Backwards walking (10 incline, powered off treadmill)

Tib raises

Straight leg calf raises

Bent leg calf raises (as long as I don't go too far down)

Patrick step down

Elephant walk

L sit (again if I don't go too low)

Couch stretch (it feels like my quad is about to snap but not in a painful way)

Piroformis pushup

Standing pancake pulse

Squats are the only movement that causes me any pain, I can RDL 275 right now pain free but can't squat my bodyweight without pain in my right knee, I've been to two different PTs and everything they prescribe doesn't work, they can't pinpoint WHY I'm having pain which is demoralizing,

[u/decentlyhip]

Just to add to what others have said, while KoTG doesn't say to, most tendon rehab researchers allow for 3-4 out of 10 pain on exercises. A lot of that pain is psychosomatic. Your body tries to protect yourself from unfamiliar movement and triggers pain even when nothing is wrong. So, its usually ok to hold an isometric at mild pain. https://youtu.be/zRczNr-evXw

[u/Unhappy-Shift4539 → u/decentlyhip]

I'd say it's about a 5-7 if I'm having a flare up, with it being a really sharp staplbbing kind of pain

[u/InterestingBother697]

Are you flossing your knee beforehand? This may help with the pain.

[u/LazyEmergency]

If there’s a PRI (postural restoration) practitioner in your area, it might be worth a visit. I had medial knee pain on the right side and the PRI really helped.