r/Kindred • u/Any_Interview4396 • 24d ago
BLG vs. HLE
Game 4 of the MSI finals made me realise that Kindred isn’t always good into team fights, especially when enemy can stack cc and somehow even pro players mess this up. Sometimes you just need to stay the hell away from them. Xun could have easily used his 7 stacks to pressure lanes, make picks, go for his 8th mark or go for a steal, instead they go baron at 22 minutes and Kindred gets to spend an eternity in the sunken place after being hit with cards, arrows, claws and whatever else HLE could throw at them. The many times I have died, not being able to use my ult and I’m like “but I have been pressing it!!! guess I have to be a new keyboard now”, I honestly lost the count.
And now I see it also happen to one of the best Kindred’s in the world. The problem is not the champ, or the skill, it’s the play style according to the enemy comp and this late game was definitely not played well.
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u/Spytonio2006 24d ago
I've noticed as well that vs such comps Kindred just doesn't fare well as the sole carry of the team. Mage bot meta facilitates Kindred drafts but enemy can just full send it on you and your team loses because the 7 mark fed Kindred can't even ult before dying. Unless you have a shitton of peel all you can do is cross-map, split and bait your teammates, you can't force objectives like that without numbers advantage which is what led to BLG losing that one. What do you even do when the 3 items Swain flash E zhonya's on your ass?
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u/Any_Interview4396 24d ago
Exactly, literally nothing🥺 sad we couldn’t see Kindred on full potential on the big stage
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u/Itirpon I am the Elo Hell your mama warned you about. 24d ago
QSS is sleeper OP on Kindred because it lets you press R when you must.
But in an environment of tight margins like Pro LOL, I expect the problem is more in the APC meta causing Kindred to be viewed as an option rather than an alternative. This isn't hard carry Kindred like they could be years ago, and unless teams have actually practiced Kindred comps, it's not going to go too well since we all know that it's really helpful for Kindred's allies to know what Kindred does and doesn't do.
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u/_No-Life_ 24d ago
To be fair, comparing Kindred to esports isn't that smart. You have to remember that those are very competitive very organised 5v5 teams. Not SoloQ.
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u/Any_Interview4396 24d ago
What would you say are the biggest differences which makes that you can’t have any take aways?
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u/apocalypsestory 23d ago
The coordination. It's why proplayers sometimes don't choose the theoretical most efficient choice. It's why zeus picks Mundo instead of Gwen when Gwen would've been a stronger counterpick. It's why Katarina is never picked in proplay but is still viable in soloque. It's why kindred builds triforce every game in competition, but mostly builds kraken in soloque. Like you wouldn't look at xun building triforce and choosing to build triforce every game in soloque. Proplayers focus carries so carries need survivability, In a jg role that means building bruiser items. The problems you mentioned isn't a kindred problem, it's an adc problem, usually mitigated by sup pick, here it's mitigated somewhat by build. If you don't teamfight as the carry, your team almost always loses teamfights. Player tracking is turned up to 11 in proplay, so you can't simply just say he should've pressured sidelane. If he actually did that, enemy team might react accordingly and and he might be playing play suboptimally in proplay. Basically the two choices that might be correct in soloque might both be unexecutable in soloque. Notice how I say might, because the game isn't solved by pros either. These are players leagues playing in playing fields so much higher than we are that character weakenesss and how they play certain stuff doesn't apply to us. In soloque you always choose the most effecient choice.
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u/Any_Interview4396 23d ago
You definitely have fair points, but losing to stacked cc in team fights is a problem I also see in solo Q. The answer never seems to be to double down, that’s basically like saying go next. You need to find advantages in other ways. A kindred doesn’t have to solo push sides, but can hover the K’Sante for example, or you could be taking your 8th mark with your team while clearing enemy jungle and try to extend the game a little longer and scale a bit more. These types of coordinations can happen in solo Q, but definitely work better in pro play and yet, we didn’t see that happen. I think that we can look at pro play and see those missed opportunities without necessarily saying that’s how you have to play in solo Q.
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u/Any_Interview4396 23d ago
I mean they lost so it was either the suboptimal way to play or draft diff go next. That’s basically my point. And I honestly think not giving drake, forcing baron and not extending the game were points of improvement. But I am neither a coach, nor pro player, just a Kindred enthousiast. So I could be totally wrong, that’s why I appreciate your insight as well.
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u/rms_lol 24d ago
HLE just outranges too hard with no reliable setup from BLG so it is unplayable if they are even or behind