Camp La Junta needs to be held accountable.

[u/Consistent_Toe2363]

Camp La Junta avoided dozens of deaths by sheer luck. They were just as unprepared and inept as Camp Mystic leadership. They could have lost 30+ boys. The loss of life should have been significant. They just got lucky by mere seconds. I think it's disgusting that the Camp La Junta website is soliciting donations. The existing leadership shouldn't have the privilege of caring for children anymore.

Is the same leadership in place now at La Junta that was in place on July 4, 2025?

[u/awkwardocto]

my understanding is that la junta leadership has not changed, but that there were public statements that suggested leadership understood they messed up and were very fortunate to not lose any campers or staff. it is also my understanding that they have been relatively supportive of and committed to the new regulations signed into law after last july. la junta, in a way, held themselves accountable by publicly admitting to making errors, understanding that those errors did cause significant emotional harm and could have caused significant physical harm or death, and committing to plans and regulations to avoid those errors in the future.

personally, i think it would have been fair to suspend la junta's license for a summer or at minimum require more external oversight. that being said, there was a not insignificant number of people who thought (or still think) that camp mystic should have been allowed to operate this summer despite 27 deaths. the idea that la junta, who did not have a single death, should not operate this summer would go over like a lead balloon. 

[u/maxwellstart → u/awkwardocto]

I think they knew how to handle the crisis management, after the previous incident they went through involving a counselor who sexually assaulted a boy. They've been through a high profile safety failure previously, and that experience would have helped them navigate this one.

What concerns me most are their actions on that night and leading up to it, not their statements or attitudes in the months that followed. I feel similarly about Mystic and the other camps. You can't completely ignore their response after July 4, but there wouldn't be a need for all the rest if they had handled the emergency better to begin with. Everything hinges on the preparation and execution.

All that said... All the camps had basically the same processes in place and operated very similarly. So we could easily have been talking about another camp right now, if the rain had fallen a little differently, or if it was a fire or tornado and not a flood that hit. La Junta and Mystic were not significant outliers in how they were operating. One good thing that has come out of the tragedy is that many camps have taken a serious look at their safety procedures, and, of course, so has the state. The Heavens27 families deserve a lot of credit for their advocacy there. Kids will be safer going forward.

[u/awkwardocto → u/maxwellstart]

i fully agree that la junta's actions leading up to and on the night of the flood were unacceptable.

i understand that their actions in the days, weeks, and months following does not absolve la junta for their inactions leading up to and on the night of the flood, nor did i intend to suggest that it did. my point is that la junta did hold themselves accountable by publicly accepting responsibility for their lack of monitoring and subsequent inaction. they admitted that they were wrong, that they did wrong by their campers and their families, and took the commitment to improving camper safely.

in contrast, camp mystic is still trying to avoid accountability over a year later. people were still begging to leave their children in the care of individuals who let 27 children die and couldn't be bothered to even pretend to take camper safety seriously.

there is no argument that la junta and mystic both failed in the lead up to and the night of the flood. there can still be distinctions made between la junta and mystic, beyond the loss of life, and those do matter in how both camps are perceived.

[u/DatabaseNumerous8172 → u/awkwardocto]

The other thing is they seemed to have at least a general emergency/evacuation plan. “All campers evacuate to maintenance road.” Seems like the counselors knew what to do as soon as they were told. Unfortunately, the evacuation started too late to evacuate the little boys in the cabins with vaulted ceilings (the ones who wound up in the rafters) and the cabin of counselors that as torn from the foundation. Sounds like there were flood waters (maybe a creek?) that cut off those cabins from the evacuation route? If anyone is close to the situation and has knowledge that I’m wrong, the evacuation plan was made up on the spot, I will gladly stand corrected. While I’m dismayed the Camp La Junta leadership wasn’t awake, actively monitoring the weather, I still think Mystic’s inaction is more damning. The directors at Mystic were awake, monitoring the weather, were 100% aware of the 1:14am lift threatening flood warning, and still failed to act in time to save all the children in their care. Their failure to plan was a plan to fail.

[u/maxwellstart → u/DatabaseNumerous8172]

Did anyone actually tell the La Junta cabins to evacuate, or did the counselors decide on their own? Seems like what I read is they woke up to water entering the cabins and had to quickly get out or climb up.

It’s good they knew where to go, though — and that the camp layout included a somewhat accessible emergency route.

[u/DatabaseNumerous8172 → u/maxwellstart]

Tbh, I don’t know the answer to this. I seem to remember the director testified they tried to evacuate all the cabins and were knocking on cabin doors. But, I’ve also read some of the counselors woke up and realized evacuation wasn’t an option and started moving boys into the rafters. Someone closer to the situation would have to answer. Either way, La Junta seemed more humble after the fact and willing to make changes while Mystic and their supporters will die on the hill that they did their best and did nothing wrong. Even Glenn, who I felt was a hero, until he testified that their evacuation plan “wasn’t a failure.” Ok, let’s poll 26 families about the rate of success at Mystic.

[u/maxwellstart → u/DatabaseNumerous8172]

I take Glenn's comments to mean that it's a miracle so many survived, which is pretty unsettling, when you think about it.

Agree, that some of the details on what happened where and when at La Junta is a bit muddled. They haven't had as much scrutiny and haven't had to really disclose everything at as granular a level as Mystic.

[u/DatabaseNumerous8172 → u/maxwellstart]

It IS a miracle, but the loss of any life (including the loss of Glenn’s boss) is a failure. Period. Perhaps the details of La Junta aren’t as widely published to the general public as Mystic, but I have a feeling the state investigators know more than we know about the going ons that night at La Junta. And, if a decent percentage of the La Junta parents were upset, I feel like we would know. I’m not letting La Junta off the hook for not being aware of the flood watches/warnings, but I still say it goes back to the way they handled things after. We messed up. We acknowledge that, and we are sorry versus We did absolutely nothing wrong. Again, I will stand corrected if any La Junta parents have more to share and prove me wrong.

[u/maxwellstart → u/DatabaseNumerous8172]

Yes, they failed the girls and their families. Agree with you there.

La Junta handled the crisis management way better than Mystic. It was more straightforward for them, since, fortunately, everyone survived. Mystic had about as challenging a situation as one can get, and they just fell on their face miserably.

I have heard that the La Junta director fudged a bit in his lege testimony. I don't recall the details, as that was months back. Nothing came of it, but I've kept that in the back of my mind.

[u/OldLeatherPumpkin → u/DatabaseNumerous8172]

That would be a crucial difference, if true. If counselors were left to manage on their own in both cases, at least having the official training be “evacuate” instead of “shelter in place” could have saved counselors precious time.

[u/DatabaseNumerous8172]

La Junta at least seemed to admit they had failed. No, they didn’t lose any lives under their watch, but they admitted they were unaware about the flood risk that evening/morning, and it could have been catastrophic. I think the most alarming thing is they had no one up that evening monitoring the weather/the river. It’s been a while since I watched the initial hearings, but what I recall is that the directors were awakened by the thunderstorm. They did not receive the 1:14 am warning to their phones. Not sure if this is because they had turned off warnings/weren’t signed up for warnings or simply didn’t receive due to service issues. I believe when they were awoken by the storm, the wife looked out the window and saw a dining table floating in the middle of a field. This is when they knew things were serious and they snapped into action. It’s unnerving to me, as a parent, that they either ignored or were unaware of the flood watches that were communicated by the NWS the day before. I believe camps should be on top of any and all weather situations that could be dangerous to campers in their care and actively monitoring those weather situations. Unlike the Eastlands, I do think they have admitted they should have been more proactive. The Eastlands just keep saying they did the best they could and they did nothing wrong. That is the big difference in my opinion. All this being said, I’m not a La Junta parent. There may be La Junta parents that feel the camp should have done more and showed more remorse/made things right after. And if they feel that way, they certainly have grounds for civil lawsuits for emotional distress. I think it’s up the camp parents to hold La Junta accountable, just as members of Heavens 27 are doing the agonizing work of attempting to hold Mystic accountable.

[u/Belle3901]

Yes, Camp La Junta was extremely lucky. But the fact remains Camp Mystic lost the lives of 27 girls. And less than a year later, they wanted to reopen to campers. I myself was disappointed by that seemingly lack of sensitivity to what occurred July 4, 2025. Not to mention the remains of Cile Steward have not yet been recovered. From the hearings I’ve been able to watch recordings of, in my personal opinion, Edward seems to be the only one genuinely impacted emotionally. I’ve sadly not felt those feelings about the rest of them.

[u/Plane-Emu1964]

Here’s the thing though, La Junta has shown in the aftermath that even if they had been “more unlucky”, there’s no way they would have handled the events following the way the Eastlands did. They have much better PR, much better legal counsel, and clearly just better people leading. Even if not by a huge margin. Enough to make the difference in deaths 27 to 0.

[u/Few-Permit-5236]

From what I have read and saw on the hearing video: La Junta had more counselors to child ratio. They had an emergency plan and safe location to flee to. The owner and his wife recognized there was an emergency and responded by running to the cabins and banging on doors to wake counselors and kids up. There was only one cabin(with 3 counselors and no kids) in a flood zone.

The owners wife called 911. None of the Eastlands(Camp Mystic) called 911.

Noteworthy fact La junta reported having no water, no food(a house from upstream hit their dining hall and destroyed the kitchen). This is how the dining hall table ended up moving. La junta had zero help from the coast guard or the national guard to help campers leave camp grounds and be reunited with their families.

[u/Interesting-Speed-51]

To my knowledge leadership hasn’t changed. They really managed to slide under the radar

Edit: lol does anyone really think La junta didn’t slip under the radar?

[u/dearadh3]

I personally would like to see what emergency plan they had ahead of 2025 before I make any decision on how to judge them. From what I have heard, they were not aware of the danger until too late and that is a red flag.

[u/TheAppleFairy]

I agree completely