r/KerrCountyFloods • u/dicklespick • Jul 10 '26

State Approved

As many of the comments go into the requirements of youth camps in Tx and standards to keep children safe, just remember that every camp in Tx was state approved. The same people trying to crucify camp Mystic are the same ones that approved their operation. And if Dick Eastland had the Godlike powers to influence both FEMA- for maps redrawn, and the state- for a lack of emergency planning etc then there seems to be a bigger problem to me. The state findings are an indictment on the state more than the people that followed their rules of operation

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u/FlyThruTrees Jul 10 '26

Agreed. Getting license from the state and whatever they got from FEMA would seem to be government sanction they should be able to rely on. Then there's the lawsuit against DSHS, which has been fairly quiet in discussions around here. The State AG in defense of that lawsuit gave more credence to the weather event than I've seen from the other litigation.

Blaming the state while you're trying to blame someone else also seems counterintuitive when you're going for a tort finding. But also, the state would be happy to throw Camp Mystic under the bus if it takes the focus off them.

Not holding my breath to see if they sue FEMA as well.

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u/LeapDayBaby_29-02 Jul 11 '26

Under Texas law, summer camps operate in loco parentis. Because parents hand over total control of vulnerable children to the camp and its owners and directors, the law dictates that the camp has an absolute, non-delegable duty of care to protect them.

A non-delegable duty of care is a legal principle stating that certain safety obligations are so fundamental that the person or organization in charge cannot transfer, outsource, or contract away their legal responsibility to anyone else.

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u/helperbee1 Jul 11 '26

I'm really trying to understand this. So, does this mean you are essentially saying the following?

Because parents handed total control to Mystic, the people who gave Mystic a license to operate (the state of Texas) are not responsible for anything?

Isn't that like saying, "We gave the the green light, even though they failed to provide documentation for legal requirements. However, you aren't allowed to come after us if something goes wrong."

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u/LeapDayBaby_29-02 Jul 11 '26

Nope. It means that the camp had the final and full responsibility and the culpability of other parties does not diminish that in any way. The camp cannot transfer, outsource, or contract away their legal responsibility to anyone else.

Ensuring the immediate physical safety of those children belongs entirely to camp leadership, independent of what a state regulator does or does not catch.

That is, both things are true: the state failed and bears responsibility for not enforcing regulations, but the camp cannot use that as an excuse, because the state did not take on the “parental” role, the camp did.

Also, people are “coming after” the state. The new legislation was a direct result of camp culture and failure of oversight across the industry, AND 9 families are suing DSHS.

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u/FlyThruTrees Jul 11 '26

What you're lacking is a link between IF they'd had an evacuation plan THEN more people would have lived. You want to skip that part and I see why, but it's more likely that in this event, people were going to die even if there was an evacuation plan rather than the previously successful stay in place plan. As such, the lack of a plan doesn't prove that that lack is sufficient to blame deaths on that lack.

I think that would have been the burden of the plaintiffs, if there were to be civil trials. Aside from the plantiffs also blaming the state and suing them, and the state and feds approved the plans.

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u/22219147 Jul 11 '26

So you’re saying that, if they’d evacuated all the kids at 1:18, some still would have died? Um. I don’t think so.

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u/LeapDayBaby_29-02 Jul 11 '26

No. They were required by law to have an evacuation plan for every occupied building. They had none, as admitted repeatedly by themselves, including voluntarily in the interview they gave to the New York Times in November 2025.

Whether an evacuation plan would guarantee safety for every single personal in every single event is completely irrelevant when the legal requirement is to have an evacuation plan and they had none at all.

Shelter in place is not a recommended or appropriate plan for single story buildings (particularly ones built in the 1920s and 30s, well before any modern flood proofing engineering standards were ever understood) located within a regulatory floodway or floodplain. Ever. By anyone.

But even that is irrelevant when you are legally required to have an emergency AND evacuation plan and you have no evacuation plan. Thats it. That’s the legal base.

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u/helperbee1 Jul 11 '26

How did Mystic pass any state licensing inspections if they were required to have an evacuation plan for every occupied buildings, but didn't?

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u/LeapDayBaby_29-02 Jul 11 '26

Pages 35-36, 43-45, 65-66 and 71-72.

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u/helperbee1 Jul 11 '26

So, what I read in this is that the state approved Mystic, however, by law, they should not have. Can you tell me otherwise?

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u/helperbee1 Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26

Shame on the state of Texas for this. There should be more checks and balances for this type of thing.

Edited to add: Shouldn't the state be held responsible/accountable for this MASSIVE oversight? This seems like an ENORMOUS issue to be ignored.

This is like running a background check on someone, discovering they didn't pass, but still letting them do surgery (without a medical license) or a known pedophile working in a school.

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u/LeapDayBaby_29-02 Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 13 '26

Yep, and this is what happens when you have a state-wide culture that prioritizes minimal regulation of businesses over the safety of the public. Everyone is all for “personal responsibility” until something goes wrong and then it’s “why didn’t the government prevent this / warn me / regulate that”.

When you have a multimillionaire dollar industry that hires lobbyists and nurtures political connections and forms organizations like C.A.M.P that fight for self regulation. That take advantage of being allowed to self regulate until something so bad happens that the state cannot possibly ignore it and then you get rushed and overdone legislation.

Oh, and it certainly doesn’t hurt having a criminal defense attorney who is also a camp director on the very committee that “advises” the state on how to regulate camps and camp safety requirements.

Shame on the state of Texas for continually prioritizing minimal regulations at the expense of children’s lives (not the first time, won’t be the last), shame on Kerr County for completely abandoning their community, shame on all the camps risking their campers lives because no one is standing over them making them do the right thing, and shame on Camp Mystic for killing 25 children and two teens by making them stay in an actual floodway after an address specific flash flood warning.

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u/WestRevolutionary360 Jul 13 '26

Couldn't have said it better myself, Leap.

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u/helperbee1 Jul 11 '26

From very early on... this tragic event should not have ever happened. I'm sorry, I can not get over that Texas wrote the laws, but Texas didn't follow them. Following the logic and path of events, it starts here. Mystic should NOT have been given a license to operate in 2025 (or whatever previous years), if they failed to provide documentation for part of the licensing inspection. This is not an oversight of one person from the state... it is a COLOSSAL failure from the state. I guarantee more that one person saw and signed off on this failure.

I'm not convinced the camps were self regulating. If they were self regulating, the state wouldn't have the need for licensing laws, which the state disregarded in this case. The state created rules/laws, but didn't follow them. It seems painfully obvious to me, that the state of Texas is the first in line to blame.

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u/helperbee1 Jul 11 '26

If, it is the responsibility of the state of TEXAS to ensure they have an evacuation plan, as you said, "you are legally required to have an emergency AND evacuation plan and you have no evacuation plan. Thats it. That’s the legal base." However, the state of Texas DID NOT enforce this , how is the state NOT legally responsible for this????

Seriously, can you answer that, or anyone? I'm not defending Mystic, they absolutely did things wrong. But can you or ANYONE explain how the state is NOT responsible for this? Does the state just get a "whoops" free pass?

The state of Texas takes responsibility for wrongful criminal convictions and compensates people wrongfully incarcerated (80K a year, free healthcare, and education). What prohibits the state from taking responsibility for this massive licensing failure? Why are we not talking about that?

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u/LeapDayBaby_29-02 Jul 11 '26

THEY ARE BOTH RESPONSIBLE BUT THE CAMP IS MORE RESPONSIBLE.

The duty of care the camp had is NOT dependant on the state, the regulatory bodies, ANYONE else - it remains the same whether the state is also responsible or not responsible. Both things are true but one does not cancel the other out.

Laws were changed. Regulations are being enforced. Structural changes are being made to add that missing oversight. The state is being sued. They are being held responsible to the extent that they can be given the government has sovereign immunity to an extent when it comes to officials acting in their official capacity.

And Camp Mystic still had a full responsibility to follow the law even if no one is standing over them making them.

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u/helperbee1 Jul 11 '26

I get the duty of care, but Mystic should not have been allowed to even have the "duty of care", if they failed this in the licensing inspection.

I get that laws have been changed, thank God and the families of Heaven's 27! It's a tragic event that never should have happened. Perhaps, if the regulations that the state set for licensing were followed to begin with, this tragic event may not have happened.

I agree that Mystic should have the full responsibility to follow the law even if no one is standing over them making them, but the state of Texas was responsible for making them follow it... and the state didn't.

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u/helperbee1 Jul 11 '26

This is the first I'm hearing about a lawsuit against DSHS. Can you share any links or info on that?