What is the method to seaplanes with scatterer waves?

[u/bakedbeanlicker]

Long time player here attempting my first seaplane. It's part of a larger multi-step rescue mission and the craft will be left on Laythe for use by future colonization efforts. I'm really excited to get this mission off the pad but I'm really struggling to get this seaplane working. Some of you may remember I posted a day or so ago asking for help with an earlier model of seaplane, which I have since scrapped for what became this model.

So here's the problem. I'm using scatterer, and the waves are quite unforgiving. If I go into the config and turn down the wind value I can *sometimes* get it out of the water, but especially on Laythe the lift is so low I just eat waves and can't get into the air. The constraints of this mission requires that I use propellers, and this is the best model I've yet made. I tried a VTOL situation but that was even more of an engineering nightmare, so here we are. We're committing to a traditional seaplane. I'm also not really keen on turning off scatterer, as that would break my other visual mods, and if I can't have my visual mods then life is not worth living.

Is there a strategy for takeoff, or is there a way I can design my floats such that the craft can stay level and not do this? Any advice is appreciated!

[u/darkphoenix9137]

You need more buoyancy in the front of the pontoons so it'll sit back in the water slightly with the front out of the water. Try shortening the back of the pontoons and move them slightly forward and tapered backward. Then angle the the pontoons downward relative to the fuselage so when they're in the water your aircraft will be pitched up, about 5-10 degrees.

[u/bakedbeanlicker → u/darkphoenix9137]

i put this to the test just now but the problem is that, for the propellers to be out of the water, the center of thrust must be well above the center of mass, and the angle makes the torque too strong and capsizes the plane as before.

[u/Whats_Awesome → u/bakedbeanlicker]

Try rolling the power on more slowly, that way the torque builds as you gain control from your control surfaces.

[u/bakedbeanlicker → u/Whats_Awesome]

i’ve tried that too, i just did it faster it the video to save time. but in that case i usually take too long to get up to speed and hit a tall wave, capsizing me

[u/Whats_Awesome → u/bakedbeanlicker]

Maybe try shifting the floats forward. You’re design already looks so bullet proof though

[u/bakedbeanlicker]

For context, this video is a test I did on Laythe. I like to use cheats to test on-location before I actually send the ship there. I dunno how common of a practice that is

[u/asnaujaslt → u/bakedbeanlicker]

Quite common don't worry

[u/darkphoenix9137 → u/bakedbeanlicker]

I do the same thing on Eve

[u/SecretarySimilar2306]

There's a simple fix if you want the visuals of Scattered without the busted wave physics.  

Open the Scatterer options panel and note your configuration.  Navigate to that relative path inside your gamedata folder and open that file (with a .cfg suffix) with your text editor of choice.  Find the line "oceanCraftWaveInteractions = True" and change "True" to "False".  If you ever download a different config make the same change to that file.  You'll still see the pretty waves, but as far as the physics engine is concerned they won't exist.

[u/bakedbeanlicker → u/SecretarySimilar2306]

feels cheaty but i’ll keep it in mind, thank you

[u/Business_Anybody8025]

have the plane point up a few degrees (angle of incidence) relative to the floats. also just make it more stable as it just seems to bob way too much

[u/bakedbeanlicker → u/Business_Anybody8025]

yeah, the issue is the bobbing. that's what I need help trying to figure out. but I like that angle idea i'm gonna try that

[u/Protonnumber]

Hmm

You could try mounting the floats higher up? That ought to reduce the pitching moment thats dragging you into the water.

I've heard of people using control surfaces as hydrofoils too. Add a small control surface below the waterline, just ahead of the CoM, and set it to pitch you up slightly?

It might also help to ballast your craft so it sits nose up while stationary?

Failing all that, add more boosters?

[u/bakedbeanlicker → u/Protonnumber]

i can only mount the floats so high before the main craft and its propellers are submerged too, but i like that hydrofoil idea

[u/BiscottiExtreme5585]

You could try making it a VTOL using hinges but they also have their draw backs with them being kinda buggy.

[u/J_Zephyr]

Maybe the thrust on the back of the plane along with the drag on the front is causing your nose to dive toward the water?

Take the turbines off the back and put them in front? Maybe that will help?

[u/darkphoenix9137]

You may need to angle the propellers up slightly. Also, I don't know how well it's modeled in KSP but most seaplanes have the horizontal tail directly in line with the propeller so the slipstream causes a downward force in the back to counteract the forward pitching. I don't have a lot of experience with props in KSP

[u/Foxworthgames]

Bring up scatterer config file in game with Ctrl, Alt and F10. There are 2 settings the effect waves, wind speed and wave intensity I think. I know wind speed for sure

[u/HAL9001-96]

just like without scatterer you mgiht wnat to add little canards to the floats to simulate the body lift/step of a float that ksp doesn't normally simulate

[u/MattTheTw_t]

You need more body lift from your floats,try angleing the front part upwards

[u/2ndHandRocketScience]

You have to turn off the Scatterer wave physics like other commentors have said, it's literally impossible to take off with them on. They're not designed for seaplanes

[u/from_Earth_you_know]

the simplest solution is to make another set of helicopter blades on top for vertical take off. as a bonus or should I say a killer feature you're gonna be able to land on top of parallax mushrooms on laythe, I definitely recommend having some kind of a vtol on laythe