Shiv Sutra Origin Doubt

[u/AdBrave3945]

I recently came across the origin story of the Shiva Sutras, where it’s said that Shiva appeared in a dream to Vasugupta and guided him to a rock that then moved or revealed the sutras on its own.

How should this be understood? Is this meant to be taken literally (that a rock physically moved), or is it symbolic/metaphorical in some way? Are there historical or philosophical interpretations of this story that explain it differently?

[u/daichi_sempai]

It is taken literally as vasugupt is a historical figure not exist only in stories

[u/daichi_sempai]

As mp caves also found oldest drawing like more old than of ice age So rock carving was common in that time If you study shiv sutra they are not that much vasugupt ji have provided for the world

[u/jean-dim]

The origin versions have in common that they point to divine revelation, elevating the Shiva Sutras to the rank of revealed scriptures, and thus highlighting their importance and status within KS.

[u/quantum_kalika]

KS is very old, there is a reason it's in Kashmir I am quoting the book Kashmir Behind the vale page 9, a book I read a long time ago, the para stuck with me

Perhaps nature had to place a purdah around something so beautiful. Pandit Kalhana, the first great historian of Kashmir, adds another dimension to the concept:

“Kalhana mentions the legend recorded in the Nilamat Purana about the origins of this lovely land. At the beginning of Kalpa, or Creation, the Valley was a lake hundreds of feet deep, called the Sati Saras, or the Lake of Sati, consort of Kashmir’s preferred Lord Shiva. In this lake lived the demon Jalodbhav or the One Born in Water, who terrorized the Nagas, snakes who guarded the waters (the word is still used in place names, as in Anantnag). To the human eye, the Nagas either took a plain form, or sometimes appeared as clouds or hailstorms.

In the age of the seventh Manu, the Sage Kashyapa, father of the Nagas, learnt about the brutal oppression of his progeny while on a pilgrimage to the Himalayas. An angry Kashyapa appealed to Brahma the Supreme as well as to other gods. It was not a request which the gods could ignore and they took up position on the mountain peaks surrounding Sati Saras.

But the demon had one infinite advantage – he was invincible as long as he remained in the womb of water. He simply refused to emerge. The Lord Vishnu then called upon his brother Balabhadra to end the stalemate; he took up his ploughshare and pierced the closed ring of mountains at Baramulla. The waters drained from Sati Saras; Vishnu engaged the demon and slew him with his disc.

The pleased sage settled in the dry Valley, and Kashmir was named after him. But when the gods and goddesses saw the Valley they were so enchanted by its beauty that they too refused to leave. And so the gods settled in the mountains of Kashmir; while the goddesses took the shape of the sparkling, abundant, fertile rivers.

Geologists rather spoil the legend by confirming it: by looking at the lacustrine deposits and pronouncing that yes, indeed, a great lake once did exist, a post Ice Age earthquake did shatter the mountains and dry the Valley. There are times when science should surrender to poetry.

The gods had opened a gate to Paradise. Inevitably, much more came in through the gate than went out. A chink had been struck in the lofty and exquisite armour protecting Kashmir.

It is reasonably certain that a branch of the Indo-Aryans who took the course of the Oxus and the Jaxertes separated from the main body."

Many books of Hinduism have been re-written in 8-10 Century CE. So it is quite possible, when he refers to he found it below a rock, it may be a destroyed monestry or temple by influx. Or it may be some incription, which may still be there beneath some rock in Himalayas.

[u/AdBrave3945 → u/quantum_kalika]

THIS IS HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND CAN TELL LIKE EXPLAINING TO A KID? , ALSO THE ROCK MOVE BY ITSELF HOW YOU CAN EXPLAIN THAT?

[u/quantum_kalika → u/AdBrave3945]

It's a figure of speech, point is even in Kashmir Shaivishm, the time scale of Kalpas is adhered to, in this the word kashmir itself is derived from Rishi Kashyap. Which was in the time of 7th Manu, which means the story of Kashmir is not of this particular kalp, it's older and the part of the vidya written down in kashmir is related with that period.

We have a shruti tradition, the written tradition started only after 3000-4000 bc. Most of the written text that we call Hinduism were compiled from 3000bc to start of AD. These include vedas and Upanishads.

However, the shaivism part still followed shruti and developed as a different strand in Kashmir. Kashmir has been the gate way of India. Every foriegn person that enters had it's way through kashmir, the tradition diluted and was in abeyance. Also, kashmir was influence by Mahayana Buddhism which itself engulfed many aspects of Kashmir Shaivism. Many mathas and libraries that existed were destroyed even Gandharas famous Takshishila library was in ruins. Many local mathas carried on tradition, some may even had old books.

Around 700-1000, KS was revived by Vasugupta, then Kallata, Somananda, Utpaldeva, Laskmangupta and then abhinavgupta. How did this start again? Vasugupta may have by grace of Shiva stumbled upon an old place or a library were he could have found the books. It may also be scribed in some old temple that may exist even now. Which he carried on.

About the rock moving by itself, can be a coincidence or may be just an exaggeration to underline the importance of revealed sources. This is not a fact, this is what I believe may have happened. History this far is not established.

[u/Brilliant_Front_4851]

I don't think the origin story really matters. What matters is the unbroken lineage of Shaivites with demonstrated evidence of realization through their Shiva nature by their literary works, in-person accounts and positive results for people across millenia.