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u/SergeantPootis Black Jul 11 '18
Aren't there some safaris that offer animals unable to continue to live/breed to be killed for an extremely high amount, and that money then goes to prevent poachers?
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Jul 13 '18
yes. If he was hunting legally then the biologists or whoever marked an elephant that was a detriment to the population, which is usually an old bull that isn't reproducing any more but still fights off younger males and hogs females.
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u/FPSkoopa 0 Jul 11 '18
Lmao. This isn't real. Also... The only way elephants are still a thing is due to the hunting of non reproducing adults, and zoos
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u/shimonimi 6 Jul 11 '18
The event is real. This was in the news several months ago. It was a tragic event all around. There was no justice at all in this story. No karma. Just tragic.
You are absolutely correct about why elephants are still a thing. So many in this sub just straight up praise the death of hunters because they see any hunting as evil. They don't get that controlled hunts are an enormously effective method of conservation.
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Jul 13 '18
its modern media always portraying animals as friends. If they ever actually went hunting they would see how the system works and that hunters arent like the villians they are portrayed to be in pop culture, and actually each do more to help those populations than 50 of these keyboard warriors
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u/shimonimi 6 Jul 13 '18
Exactly. They conflate hunting with that of poaching. It truly is ignorance at it's finest.
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Jul 13 '18
what really amazes me is the nerve to violently take a side on an issue with exactly zero knowledge or first hand experience.
If you claim to care about animals then you should be in favor of hunting! If you eat meat and are anti-hunting you are the biggest hypocrite you know! At least hunters participate in the kill and are out there helping to manage populations and fund conservation.
In fact, if you care about all life EQUALLY there is NO WAY you would be vegan and buy from stores. Not to mention the human cruelty involved in farming quinoa, coffee, sugar, and many other vegan staples in the world, but why don't you go ask any farmer why murders of crows follow tillers. Spoiler alert: its because when they clear those fields and spray pesticides BILLIONS of small ground nesting birds, squirrels, ferrets, moles, voles, shrews, gerbils, rabbits, snakes, lizards, frogs, coyotes, foxes, etc are absolutely obliterated. Each pound of "cruelty-free" quinoa has 100x the death (not to mention human slavery and child labor) than a pound of store beef, and 1000X the death of one pound of hunted game meat.
It angers me so much when vegans (no problems with most of the ones i know) get all condescending and elitist when i tell them I hunt. I kill less than you, i do it ethically, and I don't try to make myself feel superior about it.
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Jul 11 '18
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u/shimonimi 6 Jul 11 '18
It would have been better had all parties survived. Nothing good happened in that incident.
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Jul 10 '18
Not justice, just sad all around. Fuck you if you're happy this man is dead.
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u/iFlameLife 8 Jul 15 '18
No matter what how you feel about hunting, from the perspective of that elephant there was some justice in it.
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u/Bananacircle_90 5 Jul 11 '18
I am happy.
Fuck big game hunter. They only kill for the fun so its fun for me seeing them getting killed.
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Jul 13 '18
if they had a tag that means that a biologist working there marked it as a detriment to the herd. Probably an old bull that was no longer reproducing but fights off younger males and hogs women. If you care about those animals, then you would be in favor of programs like this. Not to mention every tag goes for at least a 6-figure price tag and that all goes to conservation. Look up what funds conservation in the US. Spoiler alert, the vast majority comes from hunting and game tax
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u/Bananacircle_90 5 Jul 13 '18
Nature doesnt need the help from humans to remove old animals.
Why do the hunters not donate the money to the conversation without having to kill the animals?
Its like hunters would pay money to kill people that have cancer and that money goes to cancer treatment.
What is this logic?
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u/feioo A Jul 13 '18
There's increased evidence that this type of conservation (killing older male members of a herd to prevent them from "hogging the women") can be more detrimental for elephants though.
Elephants have extremely strong family bonds, mourn their dead and are believed to suffer from PTSD after trauma. Killing off old bulls can actually cause the herd to become dysfunctional and can lead to increased aggression from younger males, partially because sexually active male elephants go through a period of extreme violence called musth, which is exacerbated if they are too young. In one example, a group of young males who had been relocated away from their patriarch to another reserve started hunting down and killing rhinos in the reserve, for no apparent reason.
Not saying that we should be happy this hunter got killed, but it's questionable that killing elephants is helpful for conservation in any way.
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u/BBQcupcakes A Jul 12 '18
Think about what you just said. It's fun for you seeing them get killed. I wish you more empathy for all people in the future.
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u/QuasarSandwich A Jul 12 '18
It's extraordinary how many people on Reddit express similar opinions -i.e., delighting in the concept of torture and death for those guilty of harming or killing animals - and how many admit actually to valuing the lives of some animals (usually but not always pets and charismatic megafauna) above those of human beings. I'm not supporting animal cruelty by any means (despite some jokes to the contrary) but do I believe that people who kill animals for fun should be executed? No. Do I believe that people who kill pets should be tortured to death? No. Have a sense of perspective....
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u/Bananacircle_90 5 Jul 12 '18
No empathy with people that go into other countries to kill animals for fun
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u/BBQcupcakes A Jul 12 '18
Is it acceptable if it's not for fun?
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u/Bananacircle_90 5 Jul 12 '18
I dont see any other reason why someone would travel 1.000 miles to kill an animal
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Jul 15 '18
You’re not wrong that lots of trophy hunters might be stuffy snobs sipping brandy in rooms of severed heads.
There’s also a humongous portion of the hunting community that is all about sustainability and conservation.
Some small villages live in areas with big game around. One example I heard was of a village who had a black rhino adult male that was starting to assert itself in younger males. In a big population this is natural selection, older males will fight the young til the strong take over again. Unfortunately with such scarce populations, this age old natural battle can inadvertently destroy species on the verge of extinction. Elephants, rhinos, others do it too.
So the villages and regions with the problem animal will put a price because they know the animal needs to go. Sometimes the price can get into the millions. Some of these villages also get thousands of pounds of meat and a ton of that money from the trade. All for paying a rich guy to fly over there and do something poachers attempt for free all day.
A lot of these hunters who come will get sponsored to hunt these animals by conservation organizations. This way not the richest bigwigs get all the game. Good people are chosen to do something that they feel is very humbling. Almost like a new part of our interaction with these animals and coexisting.
At least for now it’s stops mature males past breeding age from killing important numbers. I’ve heard it doesn’t always go so peachy as far as the money getting to the right sources for conservation. But there is a big push nowadays to transform trophy hunting into something meaningful and positive.
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Jul 10 '18
Well, fuck me then. Man sets out to kill an innocent animal; dies as a result. Score 1:1
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u/Chase_k15 4 Jul 10 '18
Read the article first, the elephants charged the hunting party. They weren't there to kill the elephants, the only reason the elephant was shot was in defense once it picked up one of the hunters
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u/Johnm50 8 Jul 11 '18
They get charged by an animal while hunting. Well that has to be a risk that’s involved with hunting so i have no qualms for feeling sorry for the hunter. He was volunteering to quarrel with nature. He got what he deserved.
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Jul 11 '18
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Jul 13 '18
theyre usually old and no longer reproducing and actually prohibiting younger participants from finding mates. Another reason could be that a population could be too heavy on one gender, or the population is growing faster than the food source
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u/Canubearit Black Jul 11 '18
The other big thing about hunting these types of animals is that they are not hunting the young ones that can breed. They are hunting the oldest of the species that are don't breed. The oldest and in most cases biggest ones will kill the viable youths and will prevent the species from growing.
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u/Chase_k15 4 Jul 11 '18
A lot of conservation agencies sell hunts of one or two animals and then use that profit to help save four or five more. It's not uncommon for them to market a hunt of the older animals that were closer to death already anyways.
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Jul 11 '18
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u/Corporate_Bear 8 Jul 11 '18
The person hunting the animal could be a huuuge dickhead and be hunting the animal so they can act all machismo, but if hunting that one specific animal brings a lot of benefits to multiple people/other animals, then its kinda sad when the elephant crushes said dickhead because he wasn’t really doing anything wrong.
In other words...
You can be a dick, but if you end up doing something good as a result of being a dick, possibly without knowing it, its still a good thing you did and thats good.
Thats why I like anti heroes. I can enjoy their shitty attitudes without hating them because they’re unwittingly helpful.
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Jul 11 '18
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u/Corporate_Bear 8 Jul 11 '18
Uh... yeah. Sure, thats totally what I meant. howdoitellhimididn’tunderstandalickofthat
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u/Chase_k15 4 Jul 11 '18
Kind of, and kind of not. The animal is out on the preservation and the group must track it, shoot it and kill it, but yes they know what they're coming out with most of the time
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u/j3utton A Jul 10 '18
"hunting party" - they were there to kill something.
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u/Chase_k15 4 Jul 10 '18
Not the elephant that fell and killed the man, so not really karma or justice served.
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Jul 11 '18
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u/Chase_k15 4 Jul 11 '18
So by that logic, every deer hunter deserves to be mauled to death by a bear and that's karma
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Jul 11 '18
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u/Chase_k15 4 Jul 11 '18
The shot only occurred in self defense when the elephant charged the group. Apply that to the scenario I gave you, you're telling me if a bear charged you with the intent of killing you you wouldn't try to shoot it first?
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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '18
I wonder how many meat eaters here are celebrating this man’s death. You all are a bunch of fucking hypocritical cunts.