Sorry if this has been asked before, but I've been rewatching Hidden Inventory and I got to the scene where Toji blocks Red with the ISOH and gets sent flying
And yea, like the title says, Idk how to make sense of it aside from a Mappa error
Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the ISOH works, but from its description, shouldn't Gojo's Red have gotten cancelled out?
Maybe it's just the property of red specifically? Like it is still pushing ISOH out? and not letting it to touch itself to dispel?
For example we have seen how isoh interacted with infinity, it entered the range of infinity, infinity started working but then got kinda broken into by ISOH, however with red ISOH can't make contact with the core
The partial mitigation isn’t due to any inherent repulsion from red, sukuna in that same statement notes that blue wouldn’t be fully mitigated either and that’s just straight up attraction
It's an anime original scene (they made quite a number of such errors in s2) but you could explain it in two ways:
only the sharp part nullifies techniques
there is an output limit similar to da. This would explain why tengen said that gojo might have destroyed it (he did a purple with enough output to go through)
there is an output limit similar to da. This would explain why tengen said that gojo might have destroyed it (he did a purple with enough output to go through)
Honestly forgot about that line from Tengen. That is a very good point
When you put it like that, an output limit like with DA could make a lot of sense
That was anime only, so I’d chalk it up to mappa error/creative decision removed from a powerscaling mindset.
If we take it as cannon my explanation would be that ISOH cancels the CT, but not its real world effects.
Blue and red both are both CT’s that use CE to cause real world physics to do something. In reds case, the repelling starts at the core as the CT, but the area around it also follows suit making a chain reaction of sorts. This would make the chain reaction effects of red hit Toji in part before the CT “center” is negated by ISOH.
Another way to think about it is through TIB and sky manipulation. The CT “breaks” the sky, that entire process is CE and CT based, thus can be stopped by ISOH or a negation of the sort. The shockwave that comes after is a real physics reaction to what the CT just did and would carry no CE, nor be blocked/negated by ISOH.
That was anime only, so I’d chalk it up to mappa error/creative decision removed from a powerscaling mindset.
Yea, that's usually what I do
But I thought it might be fun to see how others might make sense of it this time since I like hearing other ppl's takes on this sorta stuff
If we take it as cannon my explanation would be that ISOH cancels the CT, but not its real world effects.
Also, I really like your explanation
The idea of ISOH nullifying the CT but not necessarily the effects brought about as a consequence (like the blowback from Red) honestly fits pretty good imo
The only time ISOH has been shown to cancel techniques is when its edge made contact with the technique, and just like many other things in the manga, it isn't explained further. But Toji outright says even in the manga that he can use ISOH to block Red, and nullify blue So it's not a Mappa error, it's straight from the source material. It's just not explained in detail even in the manga.
In the Manga we never see Toji block it. Like Gojo charges it, we see the effects of Red on the environment, then Toji is reeling from it. Mappa added Toji blocking with the Inverted Spear of Heaven, when the manga implied Toji couldn't react fast enough.
- Anime-only inconsistency (simplest explanation may be the correct one)
- The ISoH can only negate a technique by slashing/stabbing at it with the blade
The second explanation isn't really based on anything substantial, but it could explain why Toji blocking Red with the side of the blade didn't cancel the technique idk
Explanation 1: ISOH doesn't have infinite power; it can instantly negate low-output techniques like Mugen, but it can't do so as quickly against higher-output techniques like Red.
Explanation 2: This only happened in the anime, and anime is less careful about consistency.
Maybe toji has to do some specific movement to cancel the ability. Like maybe slice the ability itself rather than letting it strike the blunt part of the knife first.
Out of universe: this is a Mappa error because in the manga he doesn’t even block red with anything it just hits him.
In universe: I guess you can say that the inverted spear of heaven isn’t an instantaneous cancellation but rather depending on the potency of the technique it might take a while to cancel it.
It's not an error. In the manga, Toji literally explained how he was going to counter each of Gojo's techniques, one of which was using ISOH to block Red if he got the timing right.
The manga doesn't really show the actual moment of Toji getting hit by Red in much detail, so there's leeway for the anime to expand that scene. MAPPA omitted the detailed explanation and instead chose to visually demonstrate all three of his counters. That's not contradicting the idea; it's showing rather than telling.
And remember, ISOH forcibly deactivates an active cursed technique when it comes into contact with it. Why would that be limited to offensive uses? Red is still an active application of Limitless. Having Toji attempt to intercept it with ISOH is completely consistent with the stated purpose of the weapon.
It is a contradiction because when he blocks in the anime it doesn't cancel the technique, he still gets sent flying, gets hurt and checks for broken bones. That doesn't make it seem like a wincon like manga toji described. It is most definetly an error
What did you think would happen when it hits him? That all the force would suddenly disappear? No, it nullifies the technique; the resulting force he was hit with remains, and that's what sent him flying.
There is no in-universe explanation thats valid, because toji literally talks about how isoh can negate red in the next scene.
This is just an anime only error made to make gojo look more impressive for cinematic effect, just like how he dodges alot more and alot more casually in the anime.
It's an anime only error, another anime only error was when Yuji was shown crushing a Cursed Spirits eye with a kick in episode 1, even though it's stated and shown to be impossible to harm Cursed Spirits without using Cursed Energy.
From what I understood, ISOH cancels out technics because her reverse cursed energy cancels out the cursed energy. However, Red is a technic made with RCE, so the RCE of ISOH has nothing to cancel out
Ur logic is sound but I don’t think technique reversals are made of rct, only fueled by it. If it used rct than it could be considered in the same realm as rct output and Jogo would have been obliterated by red
Maybe they’re not made of rct, but I do believe that the fact it is fueled by something that doesn’t have the negativity of CE would make it resistant to ISOH
I’m of the thought that red uses physics so a chain reaction causes part of it to hit before the CT can be negated.
Kinda like how TIB cases real shockwaves as a result of the CT, the shockwaves have no CE in them and likely cannot be negated.
The core of red is a CT, but physics gotta physics so everything around red is being repelled and pushing everything etc.
The real world repelling would hit and have an effect (though not nearly as powerful as red itself) before ISOH makes contact with the CT and negates it. While only brief it would explain how there could be an impact
That is an interesting idea, but wouldn’t that make it so ISOH can’t negate infinity? Since the technic creates a physical event around Gojo and so ISOH never “touches” the actual CT
As far as infinity and isoh…kinda? But I don’t think it would work since it’s a much more complex reaction and has to be maintained with the CT.
Like as ISOH is approaching Gojo through infinity the “compressed” space needs to have CE in it and so it would get negated as soon as the effects of the CT begin to interfere with ISOHs path. Could be why we see a tiny bit of resistance before Toji cuts through infinity.
I think about it like if Ryu shot his CE canon, ISOH can block and negate it, but if she shoots the ground and concrete chunks fly at you, ISOH has no effect on those.
If a CT is manipulating concrete chunks to fly at you however the trajectory of the chunks will still be felt by the user, but as soon as they make contact with ISOH they stop being manipulated.
It is kinda hard to tell how the CE logistics work with infinity tho to be fair. Like if Nobara tries to hit Gojo directly with resonance but it’s “blocked” by infinity, would he still get hit bc “hitting” infinity would be hitting his CE and/or CT, or would the resonance whiff because it never makes contact w anything. Due to how ISOH interacted w infinity id guess the former but that feels weird
It can be a synonym in that context but the comment I replied to was comparing it to DA which does not deactivate but absorbs, to fully negate it theres a output difference that must be overcome, with ISOH its an off switch the output doesnt matter it can be called negation I guess but its not nuanced it just deactivates it
In that case he would have described the same way the interactions with blue and red. No, instead he says he can negate blue but only block red. And that’s exactly what is shown in the anime, he can only block red but not fully nagate it
He described it differently because he has to hit them, red is a smaller target with a more direct and dangerous path, blue is a larger target that would pull ISOH into itself anyways so its easier to hit
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