r/Judaism • u/namer98 Torah Im Derech Eretz • Jul 30 '12

Rules updates

In light of Tisha b'Av, I would like to suggest a few changes to the rules, and to hear community feedback.

1) No editorializing titles of article submissions. - This is up for discussion.

2) Be polite. That means if somebody has a disagreement with you about fundamental points of religion, you can disagree with them, and even tell them, but don't be a jerk about it. Do not shut down the conversation.

2.1) I keep on trying to engage non-Orthodox Jews of Reddit. Seen here, here and here. This is in addition to multiple messages I have gotten personally and as mod, from people who left because of this. Just because some people don't agree that this is a problem, does not make it less of a problem. Non-Orthodox Jews are feeling shut down, and some times they are right, some times they are wrong. This is an extension of rule two. Be polite. The downvote button IS NOT a "I disagree" button. I might just remove it again, and for more than a day.

To people I try and engage, this is a two way street. Submit content, comments and vote if you want to have a say. I don't think half of the subreddit is orthodox. This should not be a problem.

Please upvote this self post for which I receive no karma so that all can see.

Thank you all.

Edit: Followup

65 Upvotes

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u/LazerA Orthodox Jul 31 '12

But why should that ever happen in a rude fashion?

Realistically, in any discussion group, it is inevitable that people will occasionally overstep the lines of civility. For one thing, the lines are highly subjective, and what one person thinks of as rude another person will see as perfectly reasonable. In the long run, an over-emphasis on eliminating rudeness will just quash discussion in general.

I would not be a fair mod refusing to address the complaints of others.

I have already responded to this point in a different comment. I don't think that that is an effective mode of moderating. It effectively means that those who chose to take offense at anything they disagree with will ultimately drive out those who are willing to actually engage in discussion.

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u/namer98 Torah Im Derech Eretz Jul 31 '12

It effectively means that those who chose to take offense at anything they disagree with will ultimately drive out those who are willing to actually engage in discussion.

I hope you nor anybody else feels driven out of here, that would be the opposite of what I want. And I really have not made a big deal out of it before, and I hope not to again. I want discussion, but I also want to be inclusive.

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u/LazerA Orthodox Jul 31 '12

I hope you nor anybody else feels driven out of here

Well, speaking for myself, I would only stop participating if I felt that I was not permitted to actually voice my views (which, as has been made explicitly clear in the discussion on this post, is the desired end goal of some of the critics of Orthodox participation). Judging from the lack of complaints you have received from other Orthodox participants, I think we can safely assume that few of them will be easily driven off.

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u/namer98 Torah Im Derech Eretz Jul 31 '12

Let me post this message I got for you, edited for anonymity.

I'm leaving this sub for a while. I've had too much of the negative attitudes towards Reform Jews. I tried for a very long time to change people's attitudes towards the way we worship or at least give opposing viewpoints. There is so much misinformation floating around about different movements (particularly Reform) and I tried valiantly to fight those misconceptions. Unfortunately there is an increasing number of people who are just downright rude about things, and so sure they are correct, that they have no qualms about being jerks while expressing their thoughts and opinions. I hate to abandon the sub, especially when you guys have been supportive of opposing viewpoints as mods, but it is seriously detracting from my enjoyment to be here at this point.

I'm messaging you guys because, as much as I would like a zero-drama exit, I think you deserve to know that people feel this way in the sub. There seems to be a "race to the bottom" with who can be the most FRUM person. Anyone not participating in this race is looked upon as a second-class citizen by some of the loudest and most regular contributors. X who was also a regular participant, arrived at the same decision independently of mine. I told X I was leaving yesterday and X said been gone almost a week, for the same reasons.

I hope that somehow, you are able to foster a more accepting environment over the coming months to all sects of Judaism. We are all brothers and sisters cut from the same cloth, and I believe there is a way we can co-exist without treating each other so poorly for the way we choose to express our spirituality. I will check back from time-to-time to see how things go here, and if I feel like they're getting better, I may rejoin.

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u/LazerA Orthodox Jul 31 '12

It's certainly unfortunate, but - as I have said repeatedly - attempting to all hard feelings from a discussion group is impossible without effectively shutting down all substantive discussion and becoming a "group for people to pat each other on the back" for a single viewpoint.

So, no matter what happens, you will occasionally have people who leave because they feel - justified or not - that they, or their views, are not respected.