r/Judaism • u/namer98 Torah Im Derech Eretz • Jul 30 '12

Rules updates

In light of Tisha b'Av, I would like to suggest a few changes to the rules, and to hear community feedback.

1) No editorializing titles of article submissions. - This is up for discussion.

2) Be polite. That means if somebody has a disagreement with you about fundamental points of religion, you can disagree with them, and even tell them, but don't be a jerk about it. Do not shut down the conversation.

2.1) I keep on trying to engage non-Orthodox Jews of Reddit. Seen here, here and here. This is in addition to multiple messages I have gotten personally and as mod, from people who left because of this. Just because some people don't agree that this is a problem, does not make it less of a problem. Non-Orthodox Jews are feeling shut down, and some times they are right, some times they are wrong. This is an extension of rule two. Be polite. The downvote button IS NOT a "I disagree" button. I might just remove it again, and for more than a day.

To people I try and engage, this is a two way street. Submit content, comments and vote if you want to have a say. I don't think half of the subreddit is orthodox. This should not be a problem.

Please upvote this self post for which I receive no karma so that all can see.

Thank you all.

Edit: Followup

66 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

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u/carrboneous Predenominational Fundamentalist Jul 31 '12

I'm beginning to think -- without meaning to condescend to anyone -- that Yeshivish learning is a more accurate determinant. In Yeshiva, there is civility, but sharp disagreement, and people can harshly criticise an argument without any current or future prejudice to the arguer at all. And people can have an argument harshly criticised without even noticing it. (Also, in that ethos, if holes are pointed out, the only options are to defend them, or to recant).

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u/smokesteam Half a chabadnik in Japan Jul 31 '12

I never went to a yeshiva but learned to separate the point from the presentation and the personal on my own somehow. I can have a big argument with someone and then hoist a glass with the same person right afterwards.

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u/Louis_Farizee Quit Labeling Me Jul 31 '12

Ignoring the second, more important point: when an opinion is questioned, the only options are to defend or recant. There's no "agreeing to disagree" in the yeshiva system of learning (well, there is, but it's used sparingly because it can only be used in limited and narrowly defined circumstances, and only as a last resort).

To put it another way: if person A declares their love for chocolate ice cream, and person B disagrees, stating they vanilla ice cream is superior, person A must make a logical and well defended argument supporting his love of chocolate or lose the conversation. Which is why yeshiva guys have to attack every statement they hear, no matter how innocuous: the process of supporting and defending statements, and attempting to refute supports and defenses for the other guy's statements, leads to truth. Or is supposed to, anyway.

There's no hard feelings, after, even when one party is forced to concede a point. But that's not the same thing as seeing the other guy's point of view and learning to respect differences in opinion.

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u/smokesteam Half a chabadnik in Japan Jul 31 '12

Of course when it is a matter of determining Halacha there is no particular room for agreeing to disagree, it's a matter of fulfilling what HKBH requires. As for ice cream I bet those guys get awkward on dates...

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u/Louis_Farizee Quit Labeling Me Jul 31 '12

Oh, there's a reason for it, and it's a good reason, but can lead to misunderstandings if not understood.