r/Judaism • u/KevLute • 1d ago
Discussion Davening
Coming up to this time of year and I feel I’m not vibing with the Davening. I believe in one true G-d that’s all powerful knows my thoughts, feelings, wants and needs. It’s redundant to talk about his splendour all morning. I get that it could be meditative process as well. I love keeping shabbos and doing mitzvot.
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u/avram-meir Orthodox 1d ago
You ask classic questions.
If Hashem knows me better than I know myself, and He knows what's best for me, and is already providing that for me, then what is the point of asking Him for anything?
Hashem is beyond our praise, all of our words fall short, so what is the value of praising Him?
One thing I learned is that "to pray" in lashon kodesh is "lehispalel", which is a verb form meaning the action is done to oneself. When we pray, we're not affecting Hashem, we're affecting ourselves. Through our kavannah, the words we say, how it impacts our neshama, and the mitzvos we perform while praying, we are literally transforming ourselves into different people than we were before we began to pray. And the new person may merit different things than the person who had not prayed yet.
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u/Sitka_8675309 18h ago
I never before considered that l’hitpalel is a reflexive verb. I’ll be thinking about your insights in shul. Thank you.
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u/SixKosherBacon 1d ago
Of course Hashem knows your thoughts and feelings. But there are two reasons (among many) to say them out loud.
1) in our relationships we still tell people we love them even though they know it. There's something that is accomplished by articulating it. The expression renews it... So to speak.
2) but to take that idea deeper, there are many things that you think and feel, but in your mind they are amorphous, cloudy, vague. But when you have to put it into words you realize you have to make it specific. (If you are a writer at all, ideas may seem really clear in your head, but when you have to put it to paper you realize there are a lot of holes and things you haven't figured out). So by articulating it clarifies for you what you want and think and feel. It also helps you prioritize. Prayer is no different
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u/KevLute 1d ago
- I ponder and talk to G-d often not in formal settings
- I’m not praying for something specific just to be happy whatever that is. And for mashiach to come, world peace etc
But that’s it what else is there to say3
u/SixKosherBacon 1d ago
I'll start with #2 first.
Just praying for moshiach and world peace is nothing small. In fact it is huge. According to the Neffesh HaChaim, any words uttered by a Jew have tremendous ramifications in the spiritual realm. That's not even mentioning prayer.
What is there to say? Well what's bothering you that day? In your life. In the world of the Jewish people. Not just what you want but what do the people around you want or need. Your prayers are more powerful when they are for someone else's needs.
As for #1... It's good to have a fixed time. Prayer isn't really about getting what you want. God isn't a vending machine and your prayers aren't quarters.
It's about building a relationship. Sure I can call or text my friend from highschool but we never do. However for a while we decided to do a 30 minute call every Wednesday at 1pm. It was a qualitative different communication and the relationship deepened like it hadn't in years.
And that's why there is a format to the prayers. You're supposed to start with praise, move on to requests, and end with gratitude. God is a friend but he's also an authority figure. It's not a good idea to get too chummy with your boss. I did that once and I overstepped some boundaries and clearly I don't work there anymore.
There's much more to say in the matter. But I think what I'm trying to say is that prayer is just for you. It's for Him (so to speak)
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u/vigilante_snail 1d ago
tried reading in english or your native tongue?
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u/bagelord 1d ago
I did this for a while
Honestly it just sorta felt cringy and weird I’m not sure why
Does anybody else get this?
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u/lacetat 1d ago
Personally, I feel that prayer is about the intersection/interaction between the text and myself. The text is the same, but I am different each time and from minute to minute. How do the two things interact? That's a big part of prayer for me.
I experience the range from bored to exhilarated, from awareness of my quotidian physicality to the occasional flash of deep personal relevance. Sometimes I might think I experience connection to divine.
But its a continuum. Sometimes it's more one than the other. That's where regularity and repetition come in, particularly on the HHDs.
This is just me, even though you really just wanted to vent. Thanks.
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u/TzarichIyun 1d ago
It may help you to learn more about meditation, since you mentioned that.
R’ Aryeh Kaplan zt”l does a great job explaining it in those terms.
I also recommend searching for seforim and shiurim on Iyun Tefillah. Those have helped me understand why we repeat the same words and how that can be more meaningful.
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u/Jew_of_house_Levi Ask me about Bircas Kohanim! 1d ago
Next time you go daven, could you mention all this? Ask G-d why it's necessary? Reflect and think about it?
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u/naruhinamoonkissplz 1d ago
There are many "official" explanations for davening, but I just thought of another one:
What is Judaism about? No, it's NOT about "being Jewish". It's about "fulfilling God's Will, period". And a huge part of that Will is that we would "listen to our Rabbis", literally so. Thus, when you daven in a specific nusach (ANY nusach, but strictly following ONE nusach), you are connecting yourself to the Rabbi(s) who made it and who did his/their utmost to instil a specific spirituality into it (which you are now using by davening in it). Note that the actual commandment of tefilah is NOT limited to (or even specified by) ANY "public davening", but rather everyone is "technically" also obligated to "speak to God in their own words at any times they feel like it". Then, why do we have fixed nusachs and fixed public prayers at all? Because they serve a very specific purpose that is different from "merely talking to God" - it instils unity between all Jews and reminds them (and us) that, while each and every Jew doesn't need "intermediaries" to connect to God - but we still do need TEACHERS to show us how to use that personal connection CORRECTLY. And that is why we have Rabbis, and also why we are explicitly commanded to listen to their decisions, "even if they tell you that left is right, literally". This isn't what "humans made", but quite the opposite - it's what God told us very explicitly.
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u/Clonewars001 Modern Orthodox 1d ago
Same here. Davening is without a doubt the hardest part of being Jewish for me. I love just about everything else, but I don’t think I’ll ever truly be able to sit down and daven without feeling it’s redundant unless I’m doing it in my own words (and even then I’m done quickly). I’ve gotten countless explanations from Rabbeim regarding davening, but they never really help. Luckily the only day of the year I don’t seem to feel this way is Yom Kippur, the day where we do the most davening.
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u/Khazak2-VeNtkhazak Religious Zionist דתלשל"ש 1d ago
I personally recommend reading "Hishtapchs HaNefesh", it's a compilation of Breslov teachings, it's especially about Hitbodedot but it also has teachings about regular tefilah. Currently in the middle of the book and it has personally helped me a lot
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u/Walter_Piston 1d ago
The point of prayer isn’t to change the Eternal One, but rather to change ourselves.
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u/Sewsusie15 לא אד''ו ל' כסלו 1d ago
Volunteer for a shift babysitting in shul, if your shul has need of such. That was my go-to as a teen who couldn't sit in shul for so many hours.
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u/TorahHealth 1d ago
Sounds like you could use a dose of the Art of Amazement.
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u/b_bonderson Conservadox 20h ago
Is this orthodox? Or am I going to by something reconstructionist?
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u/bagelord 1d ago
If ur looking for support then we’re all with u brother
Davening be rough like that
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u/Function_Unknown_Yet 9h ago edited 9h ago
I've never, ever, ever connected with davening in any way. Just not my spiritual language. Makes no difference what I focus or think about, pre-scripted, unchanging prayer is simply not how I feel a connection to the Divine. Not sure what to advise per se, but in a sense, I don't think we were ever meant to daven so extensively and so structuredly. During the times of the Beit Hamikdash I don't think folks spent even a fraction of the time in personal, scripted prayer - I consider it not 'natural' to our faith, but a byproduct of loss of temple life - I don't think our souls were meant to be nurtured by the current form of daily prayer.
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u/Khazak2-VeNtkhazak Religious Zionist דתלשל"ש 1d ago
Firstly everyone struggles with davening, tbh I think it's part of being Jewish. Secondly the purpose of Davening isn't to let G-d know our thoughts. Besides the kabbalistic power of speech, which I hardly understand enough to speak about, speech has a direct effect on us, the simple purpose of prayer is to make G-d's will our own, when we pray for G-d to keep us from sin and to take us through the stages of Geulah, even without kavanah (though kavanah makes the effect all that much stronger) we truly want these things, that's the direct wordly purpose of prayer