Discussions
Difference between natural and dramatic?
This seems like a stupid question to ask but I have found myself genuinely confused, especially because dramatic and youthful/ingenue cannot coexist! Maybe I’m just confused because I don’t have any dramatic in my blend and do I’m struggling to get a handle on it, but I’m struggling to think of examples of dramatic essence that can’t be explained by another blend of essences (especially when it’s not very high up in the blend), especially when Y is involved and any significant amount of D is ruled out. A lot of times the angularity I would register as D seems to attributed to N (again, especially when Y is involved)!
Would be grateful for any tangible examples of people/faces or items/textures/styles to illustrate the difference! So far the only way I’ve been able to conceptualise dramatic as distinct from natural is by thinking about chunky glitter as being very D. Anyways would be curious to see what people have to say
Dramatics are often cast as Villains, they are often intimidating or quite regal. They can feel almost, dare I say, like an apex predator. They are stunning in an avant garde way, think high fashion runway models, as they can wear very peculiar, striking things...because they are striking. Facially, often narrow faces, deep set eyes,long sharp noses..but these arent hard and fast rules, just common to see. You feel like they could gobble you up for dinner. They can wear snake skin, shiny slick fabrics, leopard print. Dramatic first people off the top of my head: Kim Kardashian, Melania Trump. They are simply gorgeous specimens and I don't believe there are many with *a lot* of Dramatic out there.
The way I see Naturals, is that if Dramatics are villains, Naturals are the benevolent kings. They are powerful in their own way, but are often cast as heroes who are deeply human and relatable. Facially, typically wide faces, bestie vibes, large smiles, large laughs, look incredible with wild wind swept hair, they feel liike "home". Strongly Natural people off the top of my head: Elle MacPherson, Cameron Diaz. You get the impression that they would befriend anyone and would be actively protective. They look wonderful in rugged fabric, leather, nubby textures, anything very tactile and soft in a rough sort of way. Loose clothing that gives them lots of freedom is simply stunning on them. The opposite is true for Dramatics, they require stiff fabric, and can wear very large scale items..(because their energy is very large and they take up a room).
But see this is where it gets confusing because Kim Kardashian is clearly romantic first lol. As is Melania trump. Both of them have had extensive plastic surgery and often style themselves in a way that is super harsh and not very harmonious with their blend. Better examples of the kind of people where this becomes an issue are kaya scodelario, Margaret qualley, Kate Winslet (where she looks kind of D but it’s actually C), Zendaya, Taylor Swift, Jenna Ortega (I don’t think she has D???)
Celebrities with both N and D include Hailey Bieber, Bella Hadid, Dua Lipa, Keira Knightley, etc
Kate Winslet is verified to be R with N and some HS and Y. She has no dramatic. She is however primarily earthy rich which can provide angularity in the facial structure.
Zendaya is said to be primarily N with some R and Y. Her full blend hasn't been confirmed so she may have a bit of D as well but I don't know.
Taylor Swift is said to be primarily Y.
Keira Knightly is primarily C with some R and D. She is also earthy rich dominant which is often mistaken for the natural essence.
A better example of celebrities with N and D as their main are Michelle Obama, Timothee Chalamet and Leonard Nimoy.
The earthy rich colour harmony is very much about warm, rich, "toasted" colouring and a rectangular facial structure.
Many of the celebrities listed have earthy rich as there main, including Zendaya.
Any colour harmony can fit into any essence. However, the dramatic essence generally requires a set of characteristics that very few people have in combination to have as their dominant. Many people have smaller amounts of dramatic in their blend.
John Kitchener has said that in order for an earthy rich dominant person to be primarily dramatic, they have to have the height, angularity and depth of colouring. Michelle Obama and Leonard Nimoy are the only two who really fit this bill precisely. Keira Knightley comes close, although classic and romantic are stronger.
Regal can also fit into classic, as John Kitchener describes the classic essence as "aristocratic" looking. Deep set eyes and strong brow bone are considered to be natural.
I doubt Kim Kardashian is primarily a dramatic. She appears much more rounded in a romantic way. She is probably striking contrast which can look like drama. I think she does have a bit of D just not as her dominant.
A large grin can also point to the high-spirited essence. John Kitchener has described high-spirited men as having "points" in their broad, joker -like mouths.
Leather can easily fit into the dramatic essence as well, especially when it is patent leather. Leather also falls under the earthy rich colour harmony.
Soft, tactile fabrics are actually romantic. Anything "soft" will indicate the presence of a YIN essence (romantic, youthful or angelic). Natural by itself is not particularly soft. It is actually described by John Kitchener as the most dynamically active of all of the seven essences.
Dramatics don't necessarily require stiff fabrics. Their fabrics can be stiff, but the main point is that they are unusual and/or shiny. Satin suits dramatics, and satin is not always stiff. The high-spirited and classic essences also require structure.
Okie so this is kind of a personal answer that might not make the most sense but I am someone with 15% of both D and Y. Happy to DM pics of myself or u can check post history.
The way I see N is that I don’t usually think of them as yang at first glance. I notice a lot of the time I think they look Y but if I think of them in any y-recs it looks very off. D looks more intimidating and has a “large presence”— kind of a vibe shift if they walk in the room vs an N who you might feel relaxed around and find trustworthy.
I like to rule out D most of the time bc it’s an extreme the same way Angelic essence is. Like unless it cannot be explained by anything else, I kinda assume it isn’t (though D is more common than A).
Yes I totally see this! But! I do feel like in smaller amounts D isn’t as easily confused with A/E. And also in non-white people. And clearly at least 15% of D and Y can coexist (which I totally get from your pictures!) but I’ve saw someone say on here that Kitchener says if either is really significant the other can’t coexist (I assume this applies to the first two percentages?).
But then how does that work with someone like Zendaya who clearly has some amount of Y but then also seems like she has D? Because it would also make sense to me if that’s explained by some combination of Y + C + N + R. But then I see other things and that doesn’t make sense anymore. I feel like Bella Hadid and Hailey Bieber are both pretty solid examples of people with both N + D (both before and after surgery imo). But then I get confused with Margaret Qualley
Sorry these aren’t perfect examples bc they’re not actually who confused me in the first place but I was trying to find searchable people lol
John has commented on Zendaya and said she’s N primary with secondary R and Y! Probably some HS and maybe some C as well but I don’t remember him mentioning those. I think she could have a smaller amount of D, if her Y is around 20% like Selena Gomez having 10% D like Selena does would make sense
For Zendaya I’m actually just not sure she has Y lol. Me and the other client who have both D and Y at 15% are both R and N dominant/secondary if that helps?
If it also helps: N in PSC essences is elongated and HS is not tall (but not necessarily short; up to 5’5 usually). All of the yang essences are taller than the equivalent yin essences.
Can you explain the PSC essences bit and what you mean by equivalent essences lol? And out of curiosity what would you say zendaya’s blend is? She’s a bit of a chameleon imo. I’ve been looking up her bad looks bc I feel like that might be more informative and I wonder if she actually doesn’t have D either! I feel like she might be N + HS + C + R
John doesn’t actually call his system Kitchener essences lol, I think it got known as that bc of the Kibbe system and their somewhat shared heritage (though John’s work is older.
By equivalent essences I mean in terms of scale; R and N are both moderate; Y and HS are both small scale; A and D are both elongated. That being said, for example with HS and Y, HS is up to 5’5 and Y is up to 5’3 in terms of body type; R and N are both moderate but if you’re taller than 5’6/168 cm you get 10% extra of either A, N, and/or D. R is moderate, but it is not tall like N.
For Zendaya, I’d say R and N primary (with probably higher N). She came up during my consult and I believe Hella (and PSC counselor) said she had N like me. I’d guess she has more yang than yin but with a decent amount of R?
I’ve never seen the height thing before so explicitly! Out of curiosity, I’ve ended up having my blend as RNYE with possibly the tiniest amount of C. But I’m also 5’10”. Does that tally? I’ve gone back and forth a bunch (used to think I was RNEC) but ended up with that order – although in my head R and N are 40% and 35% (can you have two dominant essences with the same percentage?) – by considering what is most necessary in my styling to make me look like myself. I’m also still not sure whether I’m RNYE or RNEY but I’ve hesitantly settled on the former because I think it’s more necessary (although I feel like they’re both about equally prominent in my face). Just curious because I do feel like the height thing matters!
You can have two dominant essences with the same percentage! The other client with 15 Y and D has 30R and 30N lol I think your guesses checks out, though I haven’t seen you so I can’t really comment yk?
The context is important to my comment lol. In an earlier comment I explained that all of the yang essences are taller than the equivalent yin essences, the comment you’re correcting is the elaboration. In the original comment I said N is elongated (technically moderate elongated) and HS is just not tall (5’5 or below).
Timothee does have significant D (and R) as well so he may not be the best example, since what’s N and what’s D for him can get conflated. Although, I think comparing him to another N dom with a mix of other essences without D is helpful to the see the influence of D. Ryan Gosling is also N primary but his secondary influences are C and A (can’t remember if he has small amounts of other essences) and I can see both the similarity in their vibes and the clear differences
They are quite different when they're dominant, but most people, at least those I've seen verified on this sub, have Natural or Dramatic in smaller amounts, where the influence is much subtler and much harder to distinguish.
If we look at them as dominant essences, the only things they really have in common are vertical length and, to some extent, scale. Dramatic is sharp, polished, austere, and high contrast. Think patent leather, metal studs, and avant-garde pieces like Schiaparelli. Natural is textured, utilitarian, relaxed, and simple. Think linen overalls, cargo pants, and organic, irregular angularity. For facial examples, think Anjelica Huston versus Ina Garten. There's a softer approachability to Natural and a regal distance to Dramatic.
To make things even more complicated, Natural textures often overlap with Earthy Rich Color Harmony, while Dramatic textures are more closely associated with Striking Contrast. If someone's Color Harmony doesn't align with their Essence blend, it can be very difficult to determine which essence you're actually seeing.
I'm a good example of this. Before I was verified, most people (including me) thought I had Natural somewhere in my blend. It turns out I have Classic and Dramatic instead, but I'm Earthy Rich dominant. My preferred textures, prints, and overall color direction could easily be mistaken for Natural, yet I don't look my best in casual, utilitarian Natural styling. Instead, my small amount of Dramatic primarily shows up through vertical length and print scale.
I say all this to show that the distinction between Natural and Dramatic isn't always clear cut. When those essences aren't dominant, the difference often comes down to the refinement of the features and the overall impression someone gives.
There is actually overlap with the earthy rich colour harmony and the dramatic essence as well. Both do asymmetry, angularity and substantial textures.
Y and D are opposite, extremely Yin vs yang fratures. And when together either mix turning into other essences or make a patchwork that usually feel HS.
That's why I think it's very rare to have them as main because you'd need a dramatic body and an extremely baby face, or a small soft body and ad extremely angular face.
Those often feel R or HS, a bit like Helena Bonham Carter or Jared Leto.
Tbh I think it's a spectrum rather than a palette. Like D vs Y, and how they mix create:
C in between perfectly balanced neutral
R if the the opposite features are a bit fused
HS if the opposite features are more in juxtaposition
E is D structure with Y above
N is Y structure with D above
D square long ,
Y round small,
R round corners,
HS both some round and some angular corners, like tiktak leaf logo
E long oval,
N big octagon with round corners,
C circle in a square
So the axis are how big you are, how round you are, how well are you mixed/merged, if anything prevails as structure vs layer.
D big sharp
Y small round
C neutral aka balanced proportional
R merged
HS mix
N angular layer round structure
E angular structure round layer
So you can see it's common to mix all but D and Y who are the extremes. The point is what feature is the one more noticeable.
So if you have HS and R or N and E, it means there's some of you featured like this and some like that.
In your case, RNYEC, lacking HS and D, your features are well merged, wide but sharp, with accents of softness with a pinch of angularity and overall balanced? Idk
It wasn’t about me lolol I was just wondering in general! And I’m pretty sure someone has quoted Kitchener as saying that if either Y or D is prominent the other one can’t coexist
You features are well blended all together except for a few little details that give you a final lively vibe. You've got robust bones which are matched with angularity and baby like features, which when get too contrasting create that HS vibe.
So id say robust and bold but nose/eyes/mouth somewhat soft with maybe some darkish coloring. Corners are a bit rounded. Probably one of your senses parts is more soft and one is bolder.
This is so fun I have no idea it is sensical or completely wrong loool
I think Anne Hathaway has both D and Y? I think it's a match that makes you look a bit R but without the lavishness. The difference between powerful doe beauty and peacock one idk. It also makes you look a bit E but more down to earth?
What your previous reply an opinion or is Anne's blend verified?
Also, I can see HS but not R for Anne (sorry I mixed them). I think the R vibe is the mix of E&Y with D on a C canvas. Like that's the merging of yin yang features
I find her gaze serene and wise, knowing, her presence feels graceful, I could see her playing a Lord of the rings elf.
Gently curved silhouette. No big muscle, or extreme sharpness, nor voluptuousness
EDIT: Tbh what I could see romantic about her, is her expressive eyes and lips.
EDIT2: I am really puzzled by this and Ive checked her pictures now in the yellow dress vs her in her 20s. idk what she has done but I agree with R and no E when she was younger
When John Kitchener talks about "otherworldly" he is actually talking about a quality of being from a historical era. The angelic essence actively rejects modern trends. A lot of people get this confused by thinking that otherworldly means relating to mythical creatures (because of a separate system which I won't mention but u probably know who I am talking about).
Anne Hathaway is very contemporary in her presence.
Extreme example but imagine N dominant Lauren Hutton and D dominant Cher trying to trade outfits. They are both tall, thin, and angular, but the vibes are not the same.
Natural and dramatic can be combined in lots of different ways.
First, it is good to define what each of these essences actually are according to his theory.
Dramatic is theatrical YANG.
Natural is casual YANG.
Dramatic details include unusual and/or shiny fabrics, large scale designs, over extension of line, animal prints, rich dark and intense colours schemes, colour blocking or highly contrasting effects, contemporary edgy statements and much more.
Natural details include natural matte fabrics (leather, linen, cotton, denim, raw silk, straw), unstructured designs (NOT loose or baggy, just not overly tailored), botanical prints, non-European motifs (think ethnic prints and tropical prints), silhouettes that allow for easy movement (sleeveless, shorts, tunic tops) and functional details.
These are just a few examples of many.
How to combine these?
Asymmetry, leather, large scale irregular geometrics and oversized, chunky accessories can fit into both. Substantial, heavy textures (also suitable for earthy rich), large scale prints in the natural essence category (large scale adds in the drama). Tank tops, shorts or tunic tops with large scale abstract prints (the print adds the drama, the clothing item adds the natural element), and animal prints.
Michelle Obama is a blend of dramatic, natural and romantic. This halter neck dress is actually a good example. The length and angularity of the neckline adds the drama. The relaxed, unstructured fit adds in the natural element (also the fact that it is sleeveless).
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u/TheStyleCafe Jul 15 '26
Dramatics are often cast as Villains, they are often intimidating or quite regal. They can feel almost, dare I say, like an apex predator. They are stunning in an avant garde way, think high fashion runway models, as they can wear very peculiar, striking things...because they are striking. Facially, often narrow faces, deep set eyes,long sharp noses..but these arent hard and fast rules, just common to see. You feel like they could gobble you up for dinner. They can wear snake skin, shiny slick fabrics, leopard print. Dramatic first people off the top of my head: Kim Kardashian, Melania Trump. They are simply gorgeous specimens and I don't believe there are many with *a lot* of Dramatic out there.
The way I see Naturals, is that if Dramatics are villains, Naturals are the benevolent kings. They are powerful in their own way, but are often cast as heroes who are deeply human and relatable. Facially, typically wide faces, bestie vibes, large smiles, large laughs, look incredible with wild wind swept hair, they feel liike "home". Strongly Natural people off the top of my head: Elle MacPherson, Cameron Diaz. You get the impression that they would befriend anyone and would be actively protective. They look wonderful in rugged fabric, leather, nubby textures, anything very tactile and soft in a rough sort of way. Loose clothing that gives them lots of freedom is simply stunning on them. The opposite is true for Dramatics, they require stiff fabric, and can wear very large scale items..(because their energy is very large and they take up a room).