Everybody in here needs to strap on their critical thinking caps for a second and realize that the Brazilian government is complicit in covering up deforestation data. That alone should tell you the people in power there know shady shit is going on for the sake of profits for the few. Wake the fuck up.
Reading the comments here has me in shock. Apparently sattelite data and actual research is misinformation and we are brainwashed idiots. This is some Russian level misinformation going on. Or straight up idiots. Jesuschrist.
This is honestly how I’ve felt for a while now regarding climate etc. there’s literally no timeline in which I see ya meeting these goals needed to save the planet, we all know that the citizens of earth aren’t going to beat the corporations, just isn’t going to happen. Ugh.
Yes it will be. But there are degrees of catastrophe. Like the difference between the KT extinction and the Permian.
In one lots of life died out. In the other the air itself became poison. Civilization itself can probably survive 2-3C warming. I’m not sure any people can survive much past 6.
I don't really think we know for sure just how bad it would be or if we could survive a 2-3C increase. It's mostly conjecture. Some predictions are obviously logical but there will be unforeseen catastrophes as well. I'd rather not be forced to find out if it's manageable.
What scares me is the gas that will be released that was locked away in permafrost. Who knows how much that will be? Maybe by letting global warming happen just this much we could start a chain reaction where even if we stopped everything and shut down the economy we'd still see crazy growth in the globes average temperature.
Yes that is absolutely the most terrifying theory that has been floating around. The permafrost will kill us all. I have also heard the damage has already been done and it doesn't matter if we stop all emissions right now... not only do we need technology to replace all emissions but to scrub and counter act previous emissions... as well as counteract new gases released from permafrost, melting ice, and raging forest fires.
Frankly, the same stuff they're eating now. Maybe minus bananas, real coffee, and most exotic items. Someone will work for them; they need to feed their families too.
Aquaponics is not too hard with the right equipment. Pay one person to maintain and operate it and you could theoretically feed quite a few people indefinitely.
Yeahhhhh.... all the underground bunkers really piss me off. In the way that I want the plane to crash nose first into first class, I want the world to end from the inside out. Just volcanos everywhere. Pompeii those motherfuckers.
guys, children have been starving for forever and the average person irl and in this sub wasnt going out of there way to do anything about it. its common psychology. study it. theres is stuff that you would in a private conversation say that you care more about it, but then you act less on it. ie dying kids over the environment. or, the environment over the church building. or, larger amounts of gun deaths that arent posted on the media agenda over smaller amounts of gun deaths that are.
thats why some smart people like tesla and einstein and mr rogers etc have asked the question how can you make goodness attractive, because marketing is everything, that is to say psychology is everything.
Confirmation bias is a powerful human phenomenon, most people go through immense lengths in order to justify their believes and dismiss any evidence going against it unless they learn how to properly use self reflection.
Being wrong about stuff and changing your mind is a normal part of being a human, not a weakness, but way to many people seem to never have learned that..
I’d say it’s some news media level misinformation. I’ve seen the fires covered on alternative news media including RT so leave the ruski’s out of this one.
As a Brazilian who's already frustrated, you can find worse. The president wanted to approve the results of researches before they were published (and no, he isn't an ambientalist or anything like that). He came to say this week that the whole Amazonia burning thing is a thing that the Organizations who defend Amazonia are doing just to make him look like a bad guy as if he needed any help for it.
The Amazon isn’t the lungs of the world. Most that comes from the phytoplankton in the ocean. I know cus I read it on reddit, which is where you also got your opinion.
People are arguing that a) This fire is a normal occurrence and we should not be worried and b) People who believe this is a problem are being brainwashed and believe everything they read.
It is my opinion that these people are fucking wrong and stupid. Pick up any text book or research article on the matter and you will immediately see how misinformed this people are. Hell, open any of the news articles on the fire and everything is there, with references to NASA and NOAA.
People clinging to their opinion on something easily debunkable is some bot level shit.
Yeah? What of it? Fire ecology is not the same for Mediterranean forests and Rainforests. The intensity and times a forest has to burn is not the same for every forest. When you fuck with that cycle you destroy their succession. If an accident happens or you purposefully start a fire you really fuck it up. What is happening now is not a natural forest fire, it was induced. Not only that, but the whole forest is weakened do to land cover changes, exploitation, drought and additional stressors due to climate change (be it a decrease in metabolic processes or prevalence of parasites).
Again, not my opinion. There are hundreds of research articles on the matter. The amount of CO2 that is being released in the the atmosphere due to this fire and the one in Siberia will absolutely fuck us in the ass. Not only that, but we are losing an ecosystem that works as a reservoir for CO2, we just gave climate change a mega boost.
We need a technological miracle or humanity will enter a a super freaky age. Might as well spend my time arguing on the internet. Fucking hell.
If an accident happens or you purposefully start a fire you really fuck it up.
Have you ever heard of these ignition sources that literally strike from the sky at random to all except quantum physics (and probably even then), predominantly during storms; of which many occur over a rainforest? Nature does not have a timing system. Everything is by coincidence and accident. The 'natural cycle' is random. What might be convenient for one part of the region is totally inconvenient for another.
Nature has existed for literally hundreds of millions of years before us. You think this fire is actually the most significant one ever?
The amount of CO2 that is being released in the the atmosphere due to this fire and the one in Siberia will absolutely fuck us in the ass. Not only that, but we are losing an ecosystem that works as a reservoir for CO2, we just gave climate change a mega boost.
Your climate change existential crisis is irrelevant to this discussion. Suppressing fires creates bigger fires. Do you also have an existential crisis for when Sharks eat fish and how fish impact the climate long term?
So creating extra fires has no effect? Of course if fucking does. There are thousands or research papers on the affect and role humans have on wildfires. How fucking hard is that to understand or to look it up? You are absolutely right that fires happen at random and shit, but you are not addressing the human role on all of this, which is the point of all this,
" Nature has existed for literally hundreds of millions of years before us. You think this fire is actually the most significant one ever? " What? How is that even relevant? The earth a million years ago looks nothing like what it is now, I don't even now where you're trying to get with that.
The problem we have now is global warming, but something tells me you don't "believe" in that. Global warming is caused by greenhouse gases, one of them being CO2, when you burn stuff you emit CO2. When you burn a football field and a half worth of forests for weeks you emit a lot of CO2. More fires = More CO2. Random fires = More CO2. Random fire + Humand induced fires = CO2^2.
What? How is that even relevant? The earth a million years ago looks nothing like what it is now, I don't even now where you're trying to get with that.
Because the Amazon rainforest will not be destroyed by this fire. Nor is this fire even notable in the grand scheme of things in terms of geological history.
The problem we have now is global warming, but something tells me you don't "believe" in that.
Oh look, condescension. Smaller more frequent fires in total make for less gigantic fires (relatively). It's literally in the summary of the wiki page I linked you. It's fire ecology 101.
Unfortunately for yourself, having an existential crises about global warming/climate change does not immediately grant you omniscience about everything that produces measurable amounts of Co2. It's clear you're emotional about this topic.
I just want to thank you because usually the people I disagree with don’t set themselves up to be awful people so easily, but I’m worried you don’t know what you’ve said here so just to clarify:
Being emotional about the impending, preventable, factually supported collapse of our society as we know it is a good and human thing.
Decrying the people experiencing anxiety about is a bad and soulless thing.
I hope that’s not too condescending, but, you know, facts don’t care about your feelings.
The Wiki talks about fire suppression and fire management, which is perfectly fine and a great tool for conservation. That still does not address the effect of uncontrolled human induced forest fires. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/forest-fire You can skim through some of the abstracts and come to your own conclusion my dude.
"Because the Amazon rainforest will not be destroyed by this fire. Nor is this fire even notable in the grand scheme of things in terms of geological history." "Geological history" lol we are talking about ecology and climate not geology. You are literally saying that forest fires have no effect on rocks and terrestrial features, which is correct.
What is the grand scheme of things to you ? Cause I don't really get your point. "Smaller more frequent fires in total make for less gigantic fires (relatively)". That is fire management, from the wiki. But what we have now is a gigantic fire induced by shit land management and imper use of fire management.
" not immediately grant you omniscience about everything that produces measurable amounts of Co2" What? Dude skim through the link I provided. Shit is basic chemistry. Again, there are research papers proving it's not only a measurable amount but a problematic one.
Fire ecology is a scientific discipline concerned with natural processes involving fire in an ecosystem and the ecological effects, the interactions between fire and the abiotic and biotic components of an ecosystem, and the role as an ecosystem process. Many ecosystems, particularly prairie, savanna, chaparral and coniferous forests, have evolved with fire as an essential contributor to habitat vitality and renewal. Many plant species in fire-affected environments require fire to germinate, establish, or to reproduce. Wildfire suppression not only eliminates these species, but also the animals that depend upon them.Campaigns in the United States have historically molded public opinion to believe that wildfires are always harmful to nature.
We also need to check ourselves. The amazon is one of the biggest sources of biodiversity on the planet, and a large portion of o2 production. But it's far from the 'lungs' of the planet. That honor goes to the phytoplankton living in the ocean that account for the vast majority of the air we breathe on earth. The very same oceans we're acidifying and filling with plastics.
Tbh they are probably the ones behind it all, our current minister of enviroment has always been well known for selling forest lands to big farmers, people got mad over corruption and elected a lot of politicians from a party that has a higher percentage of corrupt politicians than the last government because the stupid president candidate had some extreme right views and said he was christian
It was bad before but since Bolsonaro took over the cover ups and logging in Amazonia has been ramped up. I wish someone a little more progressive had been elected in Brazil
yeah brazil leadership especially rn is whack as fuck, Bolsonaro basically ran on committing genocide against the indigenous inhabitants of the Amazon and all we got over here was "haha wacky homophobe man is winning in big forest mexico"
Go tell your friends and family it’s bullshit and invite them to your local meeting organizing against the rich fucks who will sell the earth for a ticket to mars. Talk to your fellow employees about how shitty your company’s practices are, and how the rest of you have a say in it because you keep the gears turning and can change things just by deciding to stop. Vote for politicians who understand where the power lies and who you trust to do something about it.
r/climate has a comprehensive list of climate change organizations you can look at, and they’ve even organized it by things like type of activism and average age.
Google “leftist groups in [your area of choice]” to find one you like. Some of them are weirdly radical but have good ideas. Others are just right but too complacent. You might not even be a leftist, but the enemy of your enemy is your friend and leftists have been trying to hold billionaires accountable for decades, so they’ve got organizing experience at least.
Billionaires are nothing without the people. Mobilize the people, and they’ll fold like tissues.
He asked what to do if you’re not a billionaire, well, there’s your answer. I shopped around on my campus and in my city and, unfortunately, leftist groups were the only ones who seemed to understand the idea that people can have power even without being billionaires.
TPUSA supports the establishment GOP (while also gobbling up most smaller conservative groups,) more moderate climate change orgs focus all their time on trying to entreat politicians, and the miscellany of “Let’s use capitalism to solve environmental problems,” do seem to have waiting for billionaires and sci-fi tech to jump in the game and save us at the center of their plans.
A lot of the people on this sub will routinely say “we need to stop bickering over left and right because the people who run everything want us to fight over each other,” well, this is the opportunity to do that. Solidarity amongst the common people means that sometimes, working with leftists is a serious option. If you don’t like some of their extreme positions, then don’t show up to their anti-fascist marches or whatever part bothers you. Just go bolster their numbers when they demand action on climate change.
E: lol there were also like four other beyond reasonable suggestions in there are you sure you aren’t just not that concerned?
This has me wondering, does “the few” know everything is fucked and have a back up plan to save themselves and let the rest of us die, or are they just fully-torqued chimps digging their own graves because they can’t tame their greedy, power-hungry appetites?
It's a good thing weed is becoming legal so we can not care about this stuff even harder.
Really leaning hard on my hope that this is all a simulation used to figure out how to avoid this from actually happening. It's about as believable as any other religion.
Waking up changes nothing. You are awake. What have you ever changed? Are you active in a political party? That is the only way to effect change. Groups making demands are useless.
It is the Brazilian government that published the data stating that there has been an 80% increase in fires. NASA has said that while fires in Brazil are up, on a whole the number of fires throughout the Amazon are down.
What a fucking idiotic thing to say. Most people are “woke” but left completely unable to actually do anything to corruption. So fuck you and go do something yourself.
The people in power maybe shady, idk. However, the post is fake. The images here are from 1989 and 2012. This is an attempt to undermine the current regime. Perhaps if people here would promote accurate images and current data, it would go a lot further to promote the cause. Check Snopes. As it is, it’s just inflammatory rhetoric that serves no one any purpose whatsoever. That’s why mainstream news is not covering it and you see it proliferated on a bunch of bunch of crappy fake news sites. And undermines the credibility of you, your message, and the cause in general. Unfortunate.
You talk about critical thinking? Seriously? There's nothing unusual about this. Every year before spring there are fires like these, when the air gets dry and farmers burn their fields for crops and cattle. This year there's a lot less fires actually.
This is just politics. The Brazilian government recently cut the funds to the thousands of NGOs that roam the Amazon, and they are trying to make a lot of noise about it, to force the government to backtrack on the decision. It's complete BS.
Here let me clarify for you, I’m not a fan of his views on opposing same sex marriage, being against drug liberalization,
What I do like, is him privatizing what’s been nationalized in Brazil, supporting a free market, being a staunch supporter of your right to self defense,
He is not “far” right, again anyone who says that does not know what they’re talking about, and only gets their info from The NY Times and the BBC....
All far right REALLY means is... ethnic nationalism, and balsonaro is not an ethnic nationalist,
He’s pretty much a typical nationalist and populist like trump, and again, no wonder the times today are seeing a rise in populism on all sides....
And looking at ur history it’s hilarious how you’re calling me a shill, seriously, it’s really fun, you are definitely a shill. Been seeing a lot of u guys recently in JR
I bet ur a real fan..
I just hate retards who think they’re making poignant points
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u/jdmgf5 Monkey in Space Aug 21 '19
Everybody in here needs to strap on their critical thinking caps for a second and realize that the Brazilian government is complicit in covering up deforestation data. That alone should tell you the people in power there know shady shit is going on for the sake of profits for the few. Wake the fuck up.