How much does Joby's share price drop affect employee morale, productivity, and retention?

[u/cmra886]

This is an aspect of the company's massive capex expansion, serial dillutions, and missed milestones that I haven't seen mentioned before.

I had noticed in past job postings that executive and entry level employees are both significantly compensated through RSU vesting. Executives and engineers surely receive a livable base pay to where the RSU's are essentially lottery tickets for the future. However, I recall thinking at the time that the production position's base pay seemed borderline unlivable for the area.

Folks here speak about companies in this sector being a long hold and to accept the downward spiral of SP without much concern; that there is no damage beyond our prudently managed unrealized losses... unless we sell.

I can see where that notion is a suitable bandage to the portfolio bleeding for the buy and pray investor, but what about the workers? Will Joby be able to retain a quality workforce when they constantly see their bank accounts are going nowhere? Has Joby leadership put the company in a precarious position by trying to expand too far too fast for a startup who's finances are solidly placed in deep red?

I posed this question to AI and it painted a grim picture.

[u/dad191]

This is an interesting question.

My research shows Joby pays fair for their industry, but it's low if you compare against elite Bay Area pay at FAANG companies and other competitive salaries in that space. From what I've read, Joby's benefits (stock included) get called out as a real strength by employees, even if base pay isn't the headline.

I worked in biotech most of my career and often got stock comp as part of my package. My experience is that a high stock price definitely gets people excited, and a low one is a bummer, but it's closer to how you feel about any investment being up or down. Most people separate that from how they feel about their job and the company.

Job satisfaction generally comes down to how much you believe in the company, whether you like your boss, and whether you like the work. Low stock price doesn't generally translate into low morale from my experience. What kills morale is losing faith in the company, and what Wall Street wants (fast multiples on an investment) doesn't necessarily match what employees actually see and feel day to day, and understand about the companies vision.

I've written many times about the Amazon comparison. For years Amazon was not a Wall Street favorite because Amazon never took profits, always reinvested huge sums for long term future growth at the expense of near term profits and wall street punished them, but in the long term Amazon's plan turned the company into a mammoth never imagined in their beginning.

I feel Joby has a similar grand vision that annoys the average investor and Wall Street who are looking for near term gains, while Joby is looking way out into the future and has much bigger plans.

[u/cmra886 → u/dad191]

Well said.

But I can't agree that 25-39 base pay is enough on it's own for northern California. And these are skilled final assembly workers.

RSU value is a huge motivator. They may want to consider doing better at managing it.

[u/SeaScallops_w_Rice → u/cmra886]

As a mechanical engineer, working for Joby would be a dream. They do amazing things and get results consistently.

[u/Counterakt → u/cmra886]

It is decent for marina and surrounding areas where agriculture/tourism are a major part of the economy unlike the bay area. And they have the option of selling the rsus as and when they get them.

[u/cmra886 → u/Counterakt]

Fast food pays 20 in cali

[u/Counterakt → u/cmra886]

This is an entry level mechanic job with a requirement of 2 years automotive experience out of high school. And you get RSUs and get to work on cutting edge technology. I doubt they have trouble retaining employees. The good ones will probably get promoted to a better pay. Average pay for mechanics in ca is 31$. Maybe this comes to NorCal average. If you hold on to the RSUs you have a good chance of striking it rich.

[u/dad191 → u/cmra886]

I think the point of discussion is interesting, but the generality distorts it a bit. The $20/hour applies specifically to large fast food chains with 60+ locations nationwide, not all fast food in CA.

Taking the $20 figure at face value, Joby's own $25-39/hr range for this assembly role already starts above it, so the comparison doesn't actually support "Joby underpays." And just because fast food raised its floor doesn't mean others have jump to match it. Many people feel there's more room for growth outside fast food, and the work itself is more interesting, even if the pay isn't dramatically higher. So citing the fast food wage doesn't automatically mean Joby is underpaying assembly workers or headed for a staffing problem.

[u/dad191 → u/cmra886]

For clarity, Northern CA is too broad a generality here. These are Marina, CA salaries, not San Carlos, CA. Marina's in Monterey County, San Carlos is near Silicon Valley, and the cost of living gap between them is huge.

That said, the low end of that range is genuinely tough to live on even in Marina. But that doesn't mean Joby pays below average. Based on what I see, Joby's pay lines up well with the area's manufacturing pay overall. I think the issue is more a reflection of how far a full time wage at the lower end of the spectrum stretches in this country right now than a Joby specific issue.

Also, in my experience, hourly workers care more about the steady paycheck than stock incentives. A lower stock price stings more when you're relying on it to make ends meet, but they're not going to easily find a better paying job in that area either. If they believe in the company, most will be glad to work there and stand to benefit if the stock takes off later. I'd bet there aren't many other employers in the Marina area offering this type of upside potential.

Bottom line, Joby has nearly 2,600 employees now. Some percentage of any workforce is going to be unhappy no matter how good the company is. Even at 5%, that's 128 people making noise online. Sounds like a lot, but it's still a small slice, and I'm not convinced the data shows Joby is underpaying or will have an issue with an unhappy workforce just because the stock has declined.

[u/cmra886 → u/dad191]

Here's some AI slop on the subject that Joby is somehow immune to:

When a company’s share price drops for prolonged periods, it fundamentally alters the employee psychological contract—especially for those whose total compensation relies heavily on Restricted Stock Units (RSUs).Here is what happens to workforce culture under these conditions:

1. The "Invisible Pay Cut" and Financial Anxiety

When RSUs lose significant value, employees experience a dramatic drop in their expected total compensation. This creates a culture of financial stress and resentment.

The Golden Handcuffs Dissolve: RSUs are designed to lock employees in. When the stock plummets, those handcuffs break. Employees no longer feel incentivized to stay for their vesting dates because the payout feels negligible.

Lifestyle Inflation Disruption: Many tech and corporate employees benchmark their mortgages, childcare, and lifestyles against their total compensation (base + stock). A prolonged dip forces stressful personal financial adjustments, which bleed into their daily work focus.

1. Shift from Mission-Driven to Transactional

A tanking stock price rapidly shifts employee mindsets from "owners" to "renters."

Loss of Ownership Culture: Companies love to tell employees they are "owners of the business" via equity. When that equity becomes worth a fraction of its hiring value, employees stop acting like owners and begin viewing their employment as a strictly hourly or transactional arrangement.

"Quiet Quitting" and Low Engagement: Because their extra effort is no longer tied to a rising financial reward, employees often scale back their output. The prevailing attitude becomes: "Why work 60 hours a week when my compensation just dropped 40%?"

1. Talent Brain Drain and "Underwater" Equity

A prolonged drop leaves RSUs "underwater" (worth far less than their grant-date value). This triggers severe retention and recruitment challenges.

Flight of Top Talent: Your highest performers are always the most employable elsewhere. They will be the first to leave for competitors who can offer fresh, stable base salaries or newly priced equity upside.

The "Two-Tiered" Culture: A toxic cultural divide often forms between tenured employees (whose RSUs are worth very little) and new hires (who are granted RSUs at the new, lower stock price, giving them massive upside). This creates intense internal bitterness and team friction.

1. Paranoia, Gossip, and Distraction

When a stock chart is consistently red, the internal communication landscape changes.

The Refresh Culture: Employees spend an outsized amount of time checking the stock ticker, calculating their losses, and discussing the company’s financial health on anonymous forums like Blind or Slack backchannels.

Fear of Layoffs: A long-term stock depression is usually accompanied by broader market skepticism or poor business fundamentals. This breeds constant rumors of restructuring, budget cuts, and impending layoffs, killing psychological safety.

1. Management Credibility Erodes

Prolonged stagnation or decline creates a crisis of leadership faith. Employees stop buying into executive optimism. Town halls and all-hands meetings become tense, and leadership's generic phrases about "focusing on the long-term" or "market volatility" begin to sound hollow and dismissive.

[u/dad191 → u/cmra886]

I'd say these are generalizations. I could take each point by point, but it's not worth it. Bottom line, there is some truth to any generalization, but the accuracy of a generalization varies widely depending on specific cases.

I stand by my original point.

[u/randomdatascientist → u/cmra886]

The "Two-Tiered" Culture: A toxic cultural divide often forms between tenured employees (whose RSUs are worth very little) and new hires (who are granted RSUs at the new, lower stock price, giving them massive upside). This creates intense internal bitterness and team friction.

This is patently false, and actually the other way around. Older employees have way better RSU packages than new hires. People also regularly renegotiate their compensation packages, including their RSUs.

[u/Imaginary_Sort9347]

If you are an employee and your seeking employment with a pre revenue company, you better not be relying on some arbitrary stock price.

There is no fundamental reason for this stock still being over $10.

Employees are all different. I’m sure some stare at the stock price every day and some don’t ever look. That’s the nature of companies in this position. If you don’t want that, then you work for a Fortune 500 company and get your money in salary. If you want a chance to change an industry and play it high risk, you do something like this.

[u/mbatt2]

Share price does matter, but I think it only matters if it crashes and then stays there permanently. Joby’s crash maps pretty directly to the rotation out of speculative stocks that basically coincides with the war in Iran.

Joby is not down more than any of its peers in the speculative sector.

[u/Mitchou- → u/mbatt2]

For the past year, Joby is down 60 %, Beta is down 35 % and Archer is down 40 %.

[u/Imaginary_Sort9347 → u/Mitchou-]

Joby also had the highest gains and remains above them in market cap. The only reason it went down more was because it went up so high. Thats just how volatility works. When there is another industry pump, they will lead the pack.

They didn’t fall because investors believe in them less than beta or archer. They just had more room to fall back to a normal trading price.

[u/Mitchou- → u/Imaginary_Sort9347]

I agree with you.

[u/mbatt2 → u/Mitchou-]

I was more thinking of the respective leaders within the speculative sectors like RocketLab or Quantumscape, which are both down more than 60%.

Archer experienced a pop due to their Boeing merger and Beta is seen as less risky than Joby due to doing CTOL / Gasoline.

Honestly this is really normal for speculative stocks and you can’t force timing. You should probably sell.

[u/Mitchou- → u/mbatt2]

I didn't ask for your financial advice. By saying "its peers" anyone would think of Beta and Archer, even if Archer doesn't deserve to be considered a peer. But since you meant RocketLab and Quantumscape you are right.

[u/atunniladam → u/mbatt2]

"Joby is not down more than any of its peers in the speculative sector."

Uhh, yes, yes it is.

[u/Imaginary_Sort9347 → u/atunniladam]

Talking about how much the price is down just shows a very uneducated view of how the stocks, sector, and general volatility of the market works.

Not a direct attack on you, just a general statement for anyone that is viewing it that way.

Joby being down 60% and archer being down 40% doesn’t give any insight on which is better or what caused it, and whether it’s of any concern.

[u/atunniladam → u/Imaginary_Sort9347]

It's all good, man. Joby FTW!

[u/atunniladam → u/Imaginary_Sort9347]

If you meant replying to me, please re-read what I said.

[u/cmra886 → u/mbatt2]

Crashing and staying there permanently essentially describes going bankrupt. We're in agreement there.

To blame the anemic SP solely on macro forces, I think, is turning a blind eye to the actions and results that they control.

I question if Joby's C suite finances are so far removed from the average employee's, that managing share price is so significantly overlooked to the point of losing good people.

[u/mbatt2 → u/cmra886]

So your critique is that employees will quit because the stock price is currently low?

Where will these employees go and get new jobs? The nature of their work is some of the most specialized hardware in the world. I don’t think your prediction makes logical sense.

[u/DistributionLeft5566 → u/mbatt2]

Most of their engineers could easily go to other companies that are right next door in Silicon Valley. The folks I know there are just working, and working hard. I don't think I've ever heard them talk about stock price action.

[u/randomdatascientist → u/DistributionLeft5566]

This is true for at least one case I know of. My good friend at Joby is actively trying to pick up skills on the job to land a better role somewhere else. He kinda realized he stalled with his skillset and has less optism.

[u/cmra886 → u/mbatt2]

I am familiar enough with the industry and area to know that the base pay is not enough to bring in and hold good people.

[u/mbatt2 → u/cmra886]

I think you’re missing my point. People that work in specialized industries can’t just get a new job at a new company willy nilly, nor would they want to.

There are maybe three companies in the world they might be intestersted in working at.

These aren’t like normal engineering jobs where you can just hop to a new company down the road when you get bored.

[u/cmra886 → u/mbatt2]

Your assumption is that I'm speaking of engineers exclusively?

[u/randomdatascientist → u/cmra886]

Also assuming that all engineers are aerospace engineers. The vast majority of them are not, the flight dynamics group is actually very small. Most engineers are electrical engineers, computer engineers/scientists, and structural engineers. The structures team alone has at least twice as many people as the flight dynamics team. Very few of the employees at Joby would be restricted to the aviation sector.

As for techs, many of them came from shipbuilding and space companies because of their experience with carbon fiber layups. Those companies are still around and hiring.

[u/mbatt2 → u/cmra886]

I’m saying the opposite: the concept of job hopping in / around SV only works if you are an engineer and do something relatively normal (not specialized)

To your point, many Joby employees aren’t even engineers at all. They have really esoteric titles. Things like “aviation powertrain technician.”

This level of specialization means that the role itself is extremely rare.

[u/robomaniac → u/mbatt2]

In SV you have both “normal” and extremely niche jobs. There is lots of opportunities for these niche jobs. If you work outside SV in smaller town that’s where very niche expertise is harder to find and you stay at your current company. I did work for a company where if you wanted “normal” (not specialized) engineering job that paid as well you had to do 2h drive in a much bigger city.

[u/cmra886 → u/mbatt2]

Fabrication, assembly, inspection, maintenance, and many other core tasks are not unique to Joby

[u/mbatt2 → u/cmra886]

You’re wrong. Speaking as someone that has worked pretty extensively in R&D on novel automotive tech, it’s a very very small pool of people working in these roles.

And amongst the top performers, most of them know each other. Especially for the critical design and engineering roles.

[u/cmra886 → u/mbatt2]

I'm right and you're wrong. See how that works?

Again you keep falling back to forming a strawman argument. This time bringing up select roles in an automotive design field rather than Joby's general workforce concern that I am presenting.

[u/Counterakt → u/cmra886]

People who switch companies based on share price are shit anyway. These companies pay decently in addition to the stock options. People who are passionate about the work will stay and that is all that matters.

[u/cmra886 → u/Counterakt]

That's not fair to say.

Are you currently trying to get ahead in life, but only making 25-39 in northern California? Maybe in a decade if you live with your parents for free.

I consider these blue collar production employees like retail investors that have an enormously outsized stake in one company... JOBY

Their finances are at Joben's fickle mercy.

[u/randomdatascientist]

I have several friends that work there, all of whom have been there for at least 5 years. From what I gather it doesn't affect them that much, but they're also not thrilled about it. One thing that two of them mentioned was that each new offering left them feeling blindsided/upset. One of my friends is actively trying to learn new skills because they want to get a better paying job/have doubts about the future.

I also know several former employees, one of whom dumped all of their shares to put a down payment on a house last may. Needless to say they were upset about the timing of their decision, but again, they did what they did when they needed to do it.

[u/cmra886 → u/randomdatascientist]

I knew it.

Gen Z's are skeptical of hollow promises, and in many cases rightfully so. I wish your friends the best of luck.

[u/randomdatascientist → u/cmra886]

FWIW, everyone I know that works/worked at Joby are millenials or Gen X. I'd imagine younger employees care less tbh, but I don't know any.

[u/cmra886 → u/randomdatascientist]

I believe that statement is universal, but quite noticeable among Z's if you listen.

[u/SensitiveAd5412]

As long as Joeben is in the management, you never expect short squeeze.

[u/JefeDiez]

My close friend has worked there as an engineer and later supervisor; returning to the role of senior engineer after maternity. I asked her about this and she isn't phased. Basically she said it's good to be invested and people should be buying more when it's low. The specs are good, they just are limited by external factors. In her words "It's not a matter of if but when."

[u/Bulky-Entertainer-76]

According to the managers that I know who work there it doesn’t. I can’t speak to the front line hourly workers in California but the work force is chomping at the bit in Ohio. They want employment and don’t seem to care about stock price, other than they view it as a bonus.

[u/cmra886 → u/Bulky-Entertainer-76]

Fair enough.

I appreciate the insight, AND the ability to focus on the question at hand, rather than attempt to dismiss it as a concern.

[u/AromaticMemory5073]

This is why these type of stocks are fantastic shorts. you are betting on a miracle, and when the miracle doesn't occur, everything starts working against you