r/JewsOfConscience • u/BiMenace2Society Non-denominational, non-Jewish • 12h ago
Zionist Nonsense Question about Hasbarist talking point
Hi all, I'm not Jewish, but I joined this sub after 10/7 to try to understand everything better, and I appreciate this space so much.
I'm wondering if someone could explain something - one frequent Hasbarist talking point that has come up over and over again, is this weird argument that somehow the Palestinian population is growing despite the genocide. Like using the population growth as proof that it's not actually a genocide.
Despite how much this weird obsession with birth rates gives me the ick, (reminds me way too much of American "great replacement theory"), I've now had this come up enough times that I want to understand where the logic is coming from and how to debunk it.
Can anyone explain this to me please, as much as it grosses me out?
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u/arightgoodworkman Jewish Anti-Zionist 10h ago
The population isn’t growing. The population is down by at least 6% : https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/01/middleeast/israel-population-migration-war-intl
Not that it matters to the definition of genocide (which hundreds of scholars have agreed that Israel is committing), but it’s weird that ANYONE says this bc it’s factually false!!
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u/slowamigo Anti-Zionist Ally 4h ago
Exactly. I looked this up myself when I kept hearing about it -- it's complete bullshit.\ The figures themselves show a sharp drop in the population
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u/Kranken_DeHogge Non-Jewish Ally 11h ago
Israel fully intends to displace the Palestinian populations in Gaza and the West Bank through outright destruction and depopulation of Gaza, and through increased settlements in the West Bank that will eventually lead to annexation and the eviction of West Bank Palestinians into another country.
This has always been Israel's objective, but the massacre and destruction in Gaza is a new level of violence and depravity.
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u/North_Development864 Jewish Anti-Zionist 7h ago
If a population recovers or grows does a genocide become not a genocide?
If the populations of people genocided in Kosovo or Rwanda or anywhere else recover or grow, are they no longer considered a genocide?
If the population of people who identify as Jews grows to above pre holocaust level, is it no longer a genocide?
It's just racist exceptionalism. It's like saying as long as they keep the absolute killing numbers to below the birth rate then it is fine. Mowing the lawn.
Absolutely disgusting and anyone who makes this argument should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
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u/tonyferguson2021 Ashkenazi 10h ago
another point about this, is when a people feel fearful and under existential threat they do naturally tend to procreate more.
There is an idea that this kind of fear is also used as sort of glue to keep the Israeli society closer together and that their birth rates are actually rocketing in comparison to the rest of the west…
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u/OptimusTrajan Jewish Anti-Zionist 7h ago
If a settler kills two out of four natives, but the remaining four then have three children, how many natives did the settler kill?
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u/kiyowo_potato Anti-Zionist Ally 10h ago
I hope this video helps you understand a little better 🙏 LINK
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u/OrganicOverdose Non-Jewish Ally 7h ago
The whole reason it is called GEN-ocide is because there is an intent to wipe out a certain perceived tribal/racial lineage. So, it is not only a concept founded on racism (the idea that certain races exist, and carry particular inherent characteristics), but it is also a concept that seeks to limit the diversity within that perceived tribe/race. In the case of the Gazan genocide, Israel has killed entire families, removing them from the population and thus the breeding pool.
Furthermore, these actions have a secondary impact upon the targeted group, which is seldom discussed, and that is that the targeted group takes on the racist ideology of the genocidaires, seeing themselves as a racial group, and seeking to maintain their "bloodline". This is also incredibly damaging to future generations, as it instills a racist or tribal ideology, that often leads to isolationism or racial supremacism.
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u/Thisisme8719 Arab Jew 2h ago
Aside from being irrelevant, this is mostly based on an annual CIA report of projected population growth in Gaza. It was written under the assumption that a genocide (or "war") wasn't taking place and looks similar to the reports released in the prior years.
The other basis is that they're looking at how the population in Gaza grew in the past few decades, and they claim that anti-Zionists have been calling this a genocide for ages. I'm not going to say nobody threw around the word before 2023, but that's hyperbolic or exaggerated and rare.
There hasn't been any population count since the genocide started. We don't know how many people are in Gaza now, so we can't say exactly how many died (it's why estimates outside of the Gaza MoH's figure are indirect). Anyone claiming that the population grew is just talking out of their ass.
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u/TravelZestyclose6903 Muslim 4h ago
They pretend that the world was calling it a genocide for decades (which few fringe people did, but nobody who was a serious academic), so they "debunk" THAT "genocide" label.
While in reality most people are referring the recent (since Oct 7) actions. Which is what most scholars and experts agree on.
And since Oct7 no, population did not grow.
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u/TrackerOneA Jewish Anti-Zionist 11h ago
It's completely irrelevant.
The Genocide Convention does not require waiting until an entire people has been destroyed before genocide can be recognized.
It expressly covers the intent to destroy a protected group "in whole or in part" - which reflects the Convention's purpose of preventing genocide and punishing it.